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chasing down misfire in Cylinder 1 P0301

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  #46  
Old 11-27-2014 | 08:01 PM
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OP, do you have/can take a picture of the 'bad' cylinder's sparkplug? will help us 'read' the situation
 
  #47  
Old 11-27-2014 | 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by dkfx
would the tappet solenoid bracket (if it was cracked) effect multiple cylinders?
Maybe. Maybe not. We're not asking you to replace the bracket only check that it is not cracked, loose and that the solenoid is secure.

You have to eliminate things like the bracket for if this proves to not be the source of the symptom the explanations generally become harder to confirm, require more time to confirm (or eliminate), and if found to be the problem cost more money. If the problem isn't the bracket then it isn't the bracket. But if the problem lies with the bracket and you fail to detect this you could proceed and spend much more time and money for nothing, and at the end of the day still have the misfire.

The same goes for the injector. Be sure you have eliminated this. The same goes for an intake or boost leak. The leak could be very close to where the intake seals to the head at the #1 cylinder. You must be sure there is no leak there (or anywhere). (When searching for intake leaks I used carb cleaner in an aerosol can and sprayed this on the intake along where it sealed against the head. When the engine reacted that was the leak.)

Like I say get your hands dirty.

If you come back with confidence (100%!) the injector is ok, there is no intake/boost leak, the bracket is intact and secure and the solenoid is ok then you have other things to consider but they are more complicated to delve into. If you have to delve into them you have to. But you want to be darn sure you have to.
 
  #48  
Old 11-27-2014 | 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by 993GT
OP, do you have/can take a picture of the 'bad' cylinder's sparkplug? will help us 'read' the situation
Posted this pic in the first thread.

Can't thank you guys enough for the help and suggestions.

I can't see the tappet solenoid from a lower angle but it's not moving when I touch it. I'll need to pull the bumper and intercooler to access the passenger side coils, there's a 10mm holding the heat shield on I can't access with them on. Is it worth checking the passenger side tappet solenoid bracket? Guessing that would only effect cylinders 456.

Marc I think we got our wires crossed, the car misfires more when it's cold under partial throttle then it does once it's warmed up. Once it's warmed up it doesn't break up partial throttle. Driving sans boost the car operates normally, but once you go over 50% throttle that's when everything starts to break up.

Guess tappet solenoid and injector swap is next on the list.
 
  #49  
Old 11-27-2014 | 08:57 PM
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sorry I missed the pics, the plug threads look really wet...oil, fuel, anti-seize? might be causing enough electrical resistance...although the plug end/electrodes look good.
The EPL injectors 'require' a file-fit of the fuel rail for proper injector alignment, was this completed? Maybe it could be a bad/slipped injector o-ring...
 
  #50  
Old 11-27-2014 | 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by 993GT
sorry I missed the pics, the plug threads look really wet...oil, fuel, anti-seize? might be causing enough electrical resistance...although the plug end/electrodes look good. The EPL injectors 'require' a file-fit of the fuel rail for proper injector alignment, was this completed? Maybe it could be a bad/slipped injector o-ring...
I've swapped plugs a few time with no luck. I'm not sure if the shop filed the rail or not, but been running misfire free for 3000 miles before this happened.

I'll have to find out when I get in there!
 
  #51  
Old 11-27-2014 | 10:17 PM
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hope it gets figured out soon, keep us updated
Cheers,
Rob
 
  #52  
Old 11-28-2014 | 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Macster
A cylinder is under performing. That is what the misfire error code means.
Engine misfire is when the air-fuel mixture doesn't burn fully, which in turn results in lower output torque on the crankshaft (i.e torque fluctuations).
while low compression can result in a misfire the car in question ran fine until a sudden code presented itself. rings pistons or valve failure resulting in low compression tend to take a little time to manifest (due to wear)unless a catastrophic failure is observed

while a compression test isn't hard to do on these engines and can be done from underneath i believe it leads one away from the root issue which is one of the main hardware parts i.e.: plugs coils injectors wiring. just my .02

dan if your going to pull the bumper and i/c you will have access to everything. may as well inspect all the coils, plugs and bracket while its apart.
 

Last edited by 32krazy!; 11-28-2014 at 07:15 AM.
  #53  
Old 11-28-2014 | 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by 32krazy!
Engine misfire is when the air-fuel mixture doesn't burn fully, which in turn results in lower output torque on the crankshaft (i.e torque fluctuations).
while low compression can result in a misfire the car in question ran fine until a sudden code presented itself. rings pistons or valve failure resulting in low compression tend to take a little time to manifest (due to wear)unless a catastrophic failure is observed

while a compression test isn't hard to do on these engines and can be done from underneath i believe it leads one away from the root issue which is one of the main hardware parts i.e.: plugs coils injectors wiring. just my .02

dan if your going to pull the bumper and i/c you will have access to everything. may as well inspect all the coils, plugs and bracket while its apart.

Tony at EPL suggested it could be a coil or plug in another cylinder but somehow tripping the cylinder 1 misfire. He said most commonly the one next to it or directly across from it. Debating on pulling the bumper / intercoolers first and inspecting everything or just going straight to the injector. He also suggested i'd receive an injector code if it was the injector. He also said that if it missing on many cylinders, its possible that its only "counting" enough on #1 to throw the code.

so the question is, pull the bumper/intercoolers and look at the other coils (on the other bank), and replace all plugs or swap the injector first.

Remember, the breaking up / misfire only happens under boost above 50% throttle...at least that I can feel.
 
  #54  
Old 11-28-2014 | 07:37 AM
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I'd replace plugs 5-1-6(with new) and swap coils 5-1-6 with 2-4-3 (in no particular order, although keep record of where you put each one) and see what happens, I agree the situation screams spark-miss...
the fuel smell in engine bay still makes me wonder about injector leakage though..
 
  #55  
Old 11-28-2014 | 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by 993GT
I'd replace plugs 5-1-6(with new) and swap coils 5-1-6 with 2-4-3 (in no particular order, although keep record of where you put each one) and see what happens, I agree the situation screams spark-miss...
the fuel smell in engine bay still makes me wonder about injector leakage though..
here's a fun one ; if the misfire is spark related, and Its telling me cylinder one (but it's not actually cylinder one, but somehow triggering cylinder one) and I switch all the coil packs around throw new plugs in, but it still returns here are my options:

A. it returns on cylinder 1 ; we've eliminated coil packs and plugs, correct? Must be injector related

B. It jumps to a different cylinder, then it must be something spark related. but i'll have no way of telling which cylinder since it's not accurately giving me which one is failing.

Option C wait for durametric to show up, what additional information will this provide?

The fuel smell is only after it misfires. If i just drive it around normal, i get no fuel smell (and no misfire). I'm sure the fuel smell is the unburnt fuel of the misfire, right?
 
  #56  
Old 11-28-2014 | 08:02 AM
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Yes if the misfire CEL moves to a different cylinder then it is a spark issue and the defective coil should be replaced.
If it stays on #1 then do a pressure test to 20psi at the throttle body if you haven't already(good idea regardless)
Durametric might reveal more, or not. A datalog of the car boosting on/ causing the issue would be helpful.
Is the fuel smell raw fuel or unburnt fuel, makes a big difference...



Originally Posted by dkfx
here's a fun one ; if the misfire is spark related, and Its telling me cylinder one (but it's not actually cylinder one, but somehow triggering cylinder one) and I switch all the coil packs around throw new plugs in, but it still returns here are my options:

A. it returns on cylinder 1 ; we've eliminated coil packs and plugs, correct? Must be injector related

B. It jumps to a different cylinder, then it must be something spark related. but i'll have no way of telling which cylinder since it's not accurately giving me which one is failing.

Option C wait for durametric to show up, what additional information will this provide?

The fuel smell is only after it misfires. If i just drive it around normal, i get no fuel smell (and no misfire). I'm sure the fuel smell is the unburnt fuel of the misfire, right?
 
  #57  
Old 11-28-2014 | 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by 993GT
I'd replace plugs 5-1-6(with new) and swap coils 5-1-6 with 2-4-3 (in no particular order, although keep record of where you put each one) and see what happens, I agree the situation screams spark-miss...
the fuel smell in engine bay still makes me wonder about injector leakage though..
spark + fuel. rule those completely out first all else is helpful yet circular conjecture. though to my point...who knows, could even be a faulty fuel pump!

I'm sorry but unless i saw them all come out of the boxes? id; swap ALL coils and plugs with the beru coils and bosch fdc6 for gt2.
 
  #58  
Old 11-28-2014 | 12:32 PM
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Cant add a lot other then I have had that code and it wasn't #1 cylinder giving me issues but a vac leak once and control module other= this was on one of my Audis not P car. I had fuel smell also.
 
  #59  
Old 11-28-2014 | 03:06 PM
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hate to throw even more fuel on the fire but my buddy danny had a misfire that wouldn't go away. after swapping everything under the sun including turbos! his shop determined it was the computer. i found him a used unit and all has been well since.
 
  #60  
Old 11-28-2014 | 03:15 PM
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That is true the computer can cause code also but hopefully not the issue. The battery can cause issue even when seeming good.
 


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