There are couple of us here in SD that run a similar setup. Stop by the Carlsbad cars and coffee and you can check them out. Mine was done by BBI and is using 3071GTx.

 

I drove the car in the heaviest of downpours the other week with zero issues as per Tim941NYC's set up on my car... zero problems to date but I will check once I get my new battery to see if there are any rocks thrown that way from the new Toyo R888s on my car which seem to pick up and spray every pebble around these parts. I only drove on the new tires one day as it is far too cold now and then my battery went the other day..

for rain and water no problems to date though and I drive in the rain a lot as it always seems to rain in NY

 

I should add that my area floods and I drove through a few inches of water over 50 miles with zero issue

 

That's exactly the reassurance I was looking for. Do you know what filter sock you use?

 

i drove my car with no filters in a downpour , tim actually has a video its pretty funny.

 

For those of you running this setup and have gone mafless, do you notice a difference in drivability? How long have you been running these setups? Some tuners insist the MAF is the integral part of the engine and is the only thing providing true feedback back to the DME (opposed to speed based tuning).

Thoughts?

 

If the tuner is good, you should notice no difference in drive ability. My car has 80lb injectors and more fuel than I need. The car idles at the regular 750 rpm. There is a slight stutter where it will drop to 700 and then raise back up on a beat, but any video of a mafless car shows them doing this.

However, I'm the kind of person that can drive any manual car first shot without a learning curve. Some people need to "Get in the groove" of a new setup. I didnt have ANY issues with mine though.

Besides Todd @ protomotive being extremely busy and having poor communication, he is a great tuner.

I drive my maffless car in stop-and-go traffic all the time without any issues. I've never stalled it once because of the maffless.

 

also, have anyone calculated how much whp /mph / 60-130 time / spool you'd increase by going mafless and ditching all that inlet piping? some people say it's not worth it unless you are running big turbos (big tials). I would assume on a k24/18g setup it would pickup spool and some power...i mean if every inlet manufacturer out there says you'll pickup 40whp and 500rpm of spool on a a set of inlet pipes, i'd imagine you'd make AT LEAST that going mafless without ANY restriction on the intake pipes. Correct?

Just trying to figure out where to go with the car next...and still have the stock block stay together

 

Thats a tough one... very tough.. Its extremely mod dependent. Higher hp applications will see more gains because they need/move more air through the system. I would say you'd see 15 whp on a stock car. 20whp on a tuned car, and I saw 30whp on a 700+hp car.

Spool increase is another one thats hard to estimate... Since when I did my fender intakes/mafless I went from a stock k24 turbo to a gt2871r. My peak boost on the k24 came at around 4400 in 3rd, and now I have it at 3700 in 3rd.

If I had to guess, I'd say its a 500rpm speed up.

 

PS are any high HP builds actually using a MAF?

 

Yes. I would say many (or even most?) are using a maf. The stock maf has been used to 1000hp in the past, but I think a lot of people go to a Hitachi maf for its increased durability.

Mafless is just "Easier"... It simplifies a lot of the systems, so there's less components.

 

Speed Density makes plumbing easier and removes a restriction but there are some caveats to keep in mind. Speed Density (SD) infers airflow and the tune is important. MAF actually MEASURES the airflow and should have a little more latitude. Speed Density was a large part of the reason why so many RX-7 motors popped. Users removed restrictions on the intake and exhaust side, then raised the boost. VE was heavily modified and compensation was seldom done right so they went lean - on an engine that hates detonation. Disaster!

If you go Speed Density I'd make sure the car is tuned safely for the octane and boost you'll be running and then I wouldn't make changes that will modify the VE like exhaust, intake, turbos, blah blah. Maybe sounds obvious but the engine tune will change and could run lean. MAF should be more forgiving of parts changes for sure! At least until it runs out of range...

Who's still doing MAFless tunes or Hitachi tunes? I had been told that much of this tuning wasn't being done anymore although I think ProtoMotive may still do MAFless? (Duh, yeah Todd does I see above, anyone else?) Being able to dump the intake piping and MAF restrictions was a large part of my decision to go stand-alone. I can tune myself for any VE changes and get a great deal more data from the EMS. Traction and boost control are icing on the cake.

Awhile back we debated how restrictive the OEM piping was. An easy way to find intake restrictions is with an analog vacuum gauge. Plumb it in and if you see much pressure drop you know it's restrictive. You can move it to different sections to pinpoint what needs fixing first. Someone plumbed a gauge in by the turbos, I don't recall the exact results but it made him a believer - OEM is restrictive! The more boost you run the higher the impact. Y-pipe is next in the chain of restrictions IMO.

 

protomotive
usp motorsports
tim941nyc
evoms
all do mafless tunes

 

Nice, I was misled! Is anyone doing blow-thru? I'm less sure how well that works but it seems like a great compromise. Might be an interesting sensor just to add for datalogging purposes ona standalone if it's not too restrictive. Appreciate the info!

 

The mafless works so well on these platforms that there hasn't really been that much need for a blow-through system.

Also, I heard before that its not actually a "Speed-density" tune. The fueling is determined by other means, which I am not familiar with. This could be me remembering thing wrong though.

When I first installed my mafless tune, my car ran like only 3 cylinders were firing. It ran HORRIBLE... It took me a week to figure out that I had a bad o2 sensor, and that it was causing ALL that grief. Now I know how important the o2 readings are for a mafless setup.