For those that have done the glue fix, did you remove the end tanks, ditch the rubber gaskets and then glue the tanks to the core before re-crimping or just make sure the metal tabs are fully seated against the end tanks and cover them with glue?

BTW, I looked at the E6000 specs and they don't advise using it on anything in excess of 150ºF so I'm a little hesitant to use that. I will stop by Home Depot tomorrow and see what glues they have, maybe some of the Gorilla glues may be good. I want to get this done in the next couple of days and don't have to time to order anything off of amazon.

 

John, if your tanks have not popped, don't open the tabs. Just clean everything properly, especially from oil residue, tighten tabs and add glue. Use some kind of mold so that tabs will be totally covered.

If you end up opening the tabs and r'n'r'ing tanks, remember to replace the rubber gaskets too. Use coarse sandpaper to all glued surfaces for better hold. Clean everything...again.

I used woodworker's vice/bench to keep IC's upright while the glue was hardening. One end at the time.

 

Just get some new ones and sell me the old ones

 

Hey Matt. I actually ordered new ones this morning and will have them on Thursday. My old ones are cooked. I have found the life cycle on these and for me it's 4 track seasons. I looked at my logs and they were installed 4/2012 so I have 4 hard track seasons on them which equals about 130 hard track hours. I do a boost leak test generally 2x each year and did this past weekend. I heard a hissing from the passenger one so I pulled them to get a closer inspection and boost leak test them out of the car. Both ICs were drum tight at the end tanks but both leak at the core right at the intake side where the heat is concentrated. This tells me that the cores have gotten heat cycled from the 130+ hour of track duty (equivalent to about 10K track miles) and have become brittle eventually leading to internal cracks and leaks. Granted, the conditions I have subjected the intercoolers to will not be seen by street cars or cars doing the occasional 60-130 or 1/4mile pulls from time to time. For non track duty, these will last the life of the car but like anything when punished over and over they will give up the ghost eventually. Intercoolers are just another consumable item I guess.

With that said, I still think these intercoolers are great for cars running moderate boost but they will eventually need to be replaced like many other things. Elite (tracks a 997TT) killed these ICs in the course of 1 year mainly due to the fact that he's running higher boost than I am and also running much more heat through them due to his VTGs at the track. Elite actually melted the plastic ducting that was in contact with the edge of the IC on the intake side. You could definitely see the discoloration of the glue at the intake side (where both he and I have seen the failures of the core) and none at the outlet side. This tells me that they do and excellent job of eliminating heat but the hight heat is killing the core at the very beginning where the hot inlet air is entering. In my case, 4 seasons out of these cores is still cheap all things considered. I will probably bite the bullet and have a set of ICs made using Marston Aerospace cores.

 

Where did you find them? Last time I tried to order them new I was told it was a 6 month wait. Are you guys doing any open track days next month?

Matt

 

Hi Matt,
I have a wholesale account with Porsche. They are coming out of the Ontario warehouse but I think they also showed stock in Atlanta. They are available no problem.

We are actually planning on doing a track day this Saturday at HPR. It's 10am-4pm for $100. Weather looks perfect, sunny and mid 60s. We won't get many more days like that this year. You should come out..

 

John could you weigh one of those intercoolers? Someone had asked about weights earlier and I spoke to someone who was able to weigh an SRM cooler (14lbs) so I'm interested in how the stock ones compare. I get the impression folks think the aftermarket units are much heavier.

 

I just weighed a brand new 997.2 and it comes in at 7.2 lbs. I would be nice if all the AM IC vendors would publish the weight of their products. I bet some of the 5" coolers come close to 20 lbs each.

 

Just installed new 997.2s today along with new boot hoses. I squeezed all the tabs down fully on all the end tanks and pressure tested the coolers to 25psi. The held tight with no leak down. I did not add any glue to the end tanks as I will do periodic pressure tests and if there is a problem I will just return them to Porsche as they carry a 2 year warranty. Adding glue would obviously disqualify any returns so that is why I'm leaving it alone. My old coolers never leaked at the end tanks anyway.

 

I know weight is important and that having it so far back isn't good but I'm okay with an added 7lbs per side. What I'd really like to see is more performance testing from a temperature standpoint. I've got one of mine instrumented but not logged and the performance is pretty awesome but I also recognize its not been put to much of a test. We need more numbers...

 

Would love to see more data as well.


Here's one of the published logs:


https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ml#post4316298


I don't want to get too hung up on a single data point but considering this car was "only" running 1.2 bar and put on 26C over ambient (24.5C) on a single 2-4 gear pull, call me a little leery. This relatively stock car is already in timing reduction territory at 138 mph on a 76F day.


Again, its only one data point on one car. Maybe it had leaks or other issues.

 

pwdrhound,


I'm beginning to wonder how hot it gets outside of the inlet tank. Its not that far from the turbo. My hunch is that the measurably higher heat soak on all of the all-aluminum coolers I've tested is coming from the inlet tank and spreading into the core at low/stopped speeds. Hmm...

 

From all my research of other posts and much was from you EARL(again thanks for all your labour), there are not many other intercooler offerings better for long high speed pulls and NORMAL (still many street car 95%)track duty then the 997.2 coolers. The fin density is amazing and nothing really comes near it.


The only other intercooler from all my research that I would consider to be better in all parameters then the 997.2's for the above application, would be the Champion intercoolers as the fin density is up there, stronger and flow much better!!


Now for street pull applications, 60-130, 1/4 mile there are better intercoolers then the 997.2 as their flow is drastically improved would be ETS(16row), AWE, EVOMS and of course Champion.


I know that the offerings from Alpha, TPC/Proto are going to be better, but they are at a drastically different price point. Champion is in the middle price point, but for street application ETS,AWE & EVOM are a GREAT value and would take it over the 997.2 FOR STREET applications over 997.2. I am almost positive that for street application if you picked up the later intercoolers you will be faster 60-130 etc then the 997.2's (as EARL pointed out with the ETS vs 997.2 post) , but if I did light tracking based on my research(mostly form Earl and other posts) I would do the 997.2 and glue them up!


Again, to me if $$ would allow I think the Champion cooler would be the ultimate overall intercooler for street, track & long pulls etc.






Thanks


Bobby Ali


ba

 

Earl,
I don't think its getting hot enough outside the inlet tanks to cause any damage. There is a heat shield between the turbo charger and you have several inches of distance between the two. Air is a great insulator and there is a ton of turbulent air swirling around the turbocharger as the car is moving. I don't see that as an issue. As I said, I had no evidence of the end tanks leaking whatsoever in my 1.3 bar application but I did have clear evidence of the cores leading right at the entrance on the intel side. I believe that after 130+ hours of hard track use where the inlets are seeing +250ºF (or more?) and the constant cycling of 20+psi of boost along with the vibration inherently present, the thin aluminum structure in the cores just weakens and fatigue cracks develop. If you've been tracking these intercoolers hard for a while, my bet is your cores are leaking. Pete, when was the last time you removed them from the car and did a good leak test on yours? Again, I do not see this to be an issue for street cars or mildly tracked cars. Just my $0.02

Just FYI, I put 90 hard track miles on the car today with the new intercoolers. Outside on track temps were upper 70s and the highest fully heat soaked IAT after 20 minutes was 145F which would immediately drop to the 120s when off boost.

 

Mind you that was 1.2bar on K16 yes? Weird I missed that thread!

Driving my car around I usually leave my gauge set to show me temp drop, I see -11 degrees in traffic and after any real squirt of power I see -26 or more. I have never seen a positive number. I've seen numbers as high as mid -70s but mid to high -60s more often when I pull full boost for a gear or two. Sadly I've just had no real room for a sustained pull much past 130 and staring at the gauge is tough. I'm considering running a video of it lol.

Curious I've started looking at turbo exit temp and intercooler exit temps. So far I've only seen a handful of degrees over ambient leaving the intercooler but pushing the car I see temps over 100f pretty easily out of the turbo when it's cool but not cold. I can't speak to IAT just yet but expect to log that with ProEFI soon, I wonder how much heat is picked up after the intercooler? I'd expect k16 to heat faster than my k24 hybrids.

I know everyone is gaga for the 997 RS stuff but I remain a skeptic. Mass is desirable to me in this application to soak the heat. Sean shared with me the data he saw on stock intercoolers and it was beyond ugly, changing fin count and maintaining the same basic lightweight design doesn't seem like it would yield completely different results. (shrug) I do think sealing the ducts is important, mine weren't even fully sealed stock :-(