hey mark,

I hear what you're saying. Honestly, I feel like Kaspar, Todd, myself have always done that. To be honest Todd hasn't really been into "drag racing" Porsches, he's more into road racing etc... and Stephen has probably done more dynos, write ups than one could shake a stick at They are good, honest guys in my book and that's why I work so closely with them. And you know me, since 2002 I have been posting videos of drag racing my car from 12.4 to 10.6. I didn't take it out since July of last year because I had honestly gotten what I wanted. "A good 10"... I had a new file in my car that was just insane and I really wanted to meet Joe and the crew so I came out and pounded the car the same way as always. After 36k HARD miles finally the transmissions went. Instead of being upset, I actually took a different perspective... I launched softly, did 115 just before the 1/8th and with only three gears ran a Domestic-style 11.0 at 114 or 115 lol! It gave me hope that if I put in a new tranny I'm sure I can do better than 10.62

I drag raced the Tip stage IV in what mode (I don't know?) and launched VERY softly and got a 1.97 on 19 inch wheels. It wasn't my car and I've already drag raced another Stage IV tip up at the track here and posted videos of it running 11.4 @126. In fact I posted a video of when I had that set up too. They're all over racinglix and other places. I'm always open

 

I would like to pose a question for you Markski, and hopefully this will help other consumers that ask for this type of data. And please don't think that I want to be argumentative, I would honestly like to know the answers to these questions. Because believe me, I get a lot of calls from people who want to know what a kit "should" do in the 1/4 mile.

The question is, if you had dyno runs from tuners would you consider them to be realistic? Let me explain, any tuner that is going to post 1/4 mile runs will probably post the best runs made by above average drivers. Guys like Sharky, Stephen, Todd (EVO), RenntechV12 can drive better than the average guy. So when you see runs by them, is that a realistic benchmark for Average Joe? How many runs do you think Sharky did before he got the 10.9? To me the problem with using 1/4 mile runs as the sole measuring stick is that there are so many variables that could cause a run to produce above average results or below average results. Driver's skills, temperature, sea level, the list goes on and on. Does that mean that 1/4 mile runs should not be evaluated, no. What I want to relay is that 1/4 mile runs should not be the focus on evaluating anyone's packages. Nor should any other single measuring stick. There should be a balance between what the car does on the dyno, how the car averages on the 1/4 mile (factoring out Hail of Mary runs), how stable is the car, how much fun is the car to drive, etc.. All of these things need to be looked at by the consumer. Not just what a car does in the 1/4. The fact is, and you commented on this Markski, most guys don't actually go and do runs, they depend on others to feed them information. It is our responsibility as tuners to give as much information as possible as to what our kits can do realistically and what you as a consumer should expect from the kit. I can quote what RenntechV12 did in his GT700, but does that mean that another customer can do the same? We don't know. That is why we show what the car does in the 1/4, what it does on the dyno, and try to give a good explanation as to what the car will do under normal driving. That to me is what most people need to know.

Nate

 

I agree with you... I think it would be very helpful to have some documentation from customers... if not form ur own stable... just put up the slips... and the slips, videos, and the dunos like u guys do... that would help...
On another note, you say that tuners would put up their best 1/4 time.. and I agree.. but dont they put on their best duno runs? I dont know.. so Im asking... if not.. then what would be the problem putting up average 1/4 times... just like duno numbers...
My point is.. that 3 years ago when I started to mod... I was new to this game.. just like many new guys as we speak... and if I was going to do this again... I would ask a siple question- "what does it run in 1/4"...
Lets give them some more info so they can make educated guesses and not get disappointed that they wanted this and not that... thus in turn you as tuners can work closer with customers and suite their needs...
I have an EVO8 and prior to the build out I said that I want to run mid 10s on street tires... they said it would XXX amount... and they delivered...
Sorry that Im a 1/4 stiffler... but that is one way I can guage anyones car(tuning kit)... and as u said not the only way... duno numbers tell part of the story... 1/4 ETs and trap speeds another... well, maybe the same just from a different side...
Thanks guys for jumping in and sharing ur thoughts on this one...

 

Well put Nate- except the part about me being a good driver lol:P

PS If you're not a daddy by this weekend I'll huff and I'll puff. Best of luck pal. Really I've got my fingers crossed

 

I commend u Alex for actually setting out and doing it...

 

Rather than dyno #s or 1/4 mile times I would like to see, for example, 20-100mph (or some varient) times as compared to stock with regard to Stage 1-4 and the GT set-ups. At least that way the ability of the driver is less of a factor, but you still get an idea of what the seat of the pants feel would be.

Do any of the tuners have that type of info. available?

 

Thank you for the response, in terms of what we do with our dynos, we do not post what we call the Hail of Mary runs. Whenever we are dyno testing a kit, we do many many runs under the same conditions (outside temperature, temperature of car, grade of fuel, etc). We have seen some pretty interesting variations between cars, so we try to post the average runs for each car that we test. We would rather under-quote than over-quote.

And our thoughts are that we want to compile as much data as possible so that we can display it to the public. We most certainly don't want to make claims that we can't backup. But the biggest stumbling point we come across is time. Taking the time to go out to the track and do all this sort of stuff is hard to schedule. With all the other projects we have going on it is hard to do. But, we will continue to go out there and test as much as we can and we hope that it helps other gain an understanding of what can be done with these cars and the kits. Thanks again for the input....

 

Thanks man and the very same back to you. I read that you are embarking on a interesting more custom set up and may it turn out the way you hope

Seriously it was/is a journey but the only reason it acctually happened was because of Todd, James (our James), Mike, John (oh and Anders!), Garret, Nate and a good few others. The first time I chipped my car with an exhaust and ran an 11.69 @ 121, I knew it had some potential. However every single tuner I went to (bear in mind this was four years ago) said I was a)stupid (I agree lol) to drag race a 996TT. Kevin and Stephen took a BIG chance by having a "gay" tiptronic car represent them at the European Car Shoot Out. Stephen told me that Garret/Todd had a "special" file for my car and sure enough it ran 11.13. People that were there that day say saw the software crash on my best run and say that was a 10. Who knows. They could have easily done a 6speed but I'm thankful they didn't Before them and EVO, every other tuner I went to (all the big names btw) basically said that I was:

a)stupid to have a tiptronic and to get a 6speed
b)stupid to mod it because the tranny couldn't take more than 500HP, then it was 550 and then it was 600.
c)stupid and to come back when I got a 6speed
d)stop telling them BS that a Tip ran 11.6 and that all 6speed cars are faster.

Now look what happened with the 997TT- people freaked out about the 1/4mile times being faster in a Tip than 6speed. Wasn't that a turn up for the books? Yes sir, it's called traction and gearing 101.

How many tuners actually have "Tiptronic-equipped cars"? I will tell you guys this, there are more EVO GT640 Tips running around the bay area than 6speeds lol! Is that bad? Probably but one thing we do know is that those cars not only run 11.1@128 but that their transmissions (all stock) can take it and then some. With drag radials they are likely 10 second cars (I will find out I promise). They can take 700 (just ask Kaspar) because I've been there and done it as have a good few others. Can it take 800? Well I ran my tranny into the ground. I know that you could get at least 36K out of it modded (the way I drive too). Garret/Todd knew my car would run 10s and they were more than happy/enthusiastic to get it there. I know I did a few things that weren't helpful such as run 3 degrees of -ive camber, 800/950 pound springs, in AWD and on street tires but there was something sort of goofy about driving to the track that way, making 10 passes in a row all between 10.62 and 10.89 all between 134-136mph (I did blow a MAF on one but still). Why did I do this? Because I wanted to see some consistancy. I can't dyno my car properly as we all know and I guess that was my dyno. I still remember what it's like to be a customer- really I do and I still buy stuff for my car all the time (that addiction never goes away).

Now I can take my "customer's" hat off and go back to being Shark Werks again

Signed: Sharky "Defender of the Tiptronic Faith".

PS I'm putting a Sportmatic into my 930 lol...

 

I ran a GT700 out there. It was just completed. Full weight car, AWD, full fuel, street tires at stock pressures. Not my car, but with my customers approval, he OK'd a few passes. Since I had already broken 1 gearbox in my car, I babied it off the line and had about a 2 second 60' time. The car trapped at 134 @ 11.2. Not sure what your above statement means but I guarantee you that if this car were running at one of the fastest tracks in the country like the other fast times that are being posted instead of one of the slowest tracks in the country, it would equal the times of other 615 RWHP cars. Are you thinking that the GT700 is not really 700 HP because it is not in the 10's like it should? 11.3 @ 136 as you mentioned is pretty respectible for a full weight AWD car.

 

http://media.putfile.com/EVOMS-1037

 

rwm514,

which mercedes were there?

 

Dude,
I think your run was about right in line. I also agree that you can probably shave a fuzz off with the right launch. I would not be dissaointed at all. Remember that these cars are not built for the quarter. Your car from a roll will walk most anything stock on the street. If you had drag radials on 17's and smoke your clutch you will probably see 11.8 or better but that would be insane. It is frustrating to watch 25k cobras run mid 11 or high 10's but from a roll at 75 to 150 you will SMOKE them. I too was dissapointed with my 11.91 w/stage 2 tip but it was obvious that my lauch sucked. From a roll it hangs with some pretty quick stuff. I wan't a bit more but ahve not decided what yet. I'm thinking about a k24 stage 3 (PSI 520). I think with this and headers and perhaps an intake it should go 11.7 or11.8 and from a roll be even quicker than now. My concern is I don't want to be slower down low just to pass stage 2's at 100 mph. I like it right off the mark and let them have to reel me in. Does anyone think a stage 3 gives up any down low to the k16 stage 1 or 2? Also would a 16/24 hybrid work on a standard stage 3 software setup? Also would headers help my current et at all?

 

Weight also plays a big roll. A GT3 while vastly inferior (lol) runs damn close to me and is giving up almost 100 hp. Lots of varialbes go into the ET soup.

 

IM not arguing but how do u guys explain my 11.5 second run with k24s, 5 bar, exhaust, dvs, ur hoses, , running 1.2 bars@100 octane on 19s.... and thats also on street tires ....yes 19s...
what Im trying to say is that the MPH on the gt700 is there but not the ET.
here is my slip and video... and I was at 1/3 of the cost that a gt700 is...
i also ran at 90 degree temps...Then u have Scott(divirexxtreme) who runs ur stage 2 ecu with stock k16s and he does does 11.6 @126mph.
something just doest add up... and I never said tge gt700 runs 10s... or should... just everyone on this board is under assumption that it should.. and whenever someone posts a thread liek" what does a XXX run".. no one has rear figures just a bunch of magazine #s.. and should haves .. could haves...
I always said.. and have been watching sharky vary close.. that its not easy to get into the 10s...
best to all and especially to evoms cause I had purchased many great products form you guys as well...
http://www.djmarkski.com/drag strip pic.mp4 or http://www.djmarkski.com/drag strip pic.avi
and my slip:

 

Actually Todd the GT700 _is_ in the 10s.. check out the other thread. I know the two out here are pull just like it. That really is my favorit kit. Minimal lag, lots of punch and it's a 10 second car if launched well. That GT700 ran 10.8 @134. Your 60 foot was only a 2.1 because if I remember right all you wanted to do was test the trap speed out? That is an indicator of HP and a good one at that. If you had launched it and done even a 1.9 then it would have been a 10 anyways... Those cams and IC's look to be doing the trick. I tried to find a set of cams to label but couldn't