This thread is rather amusing.

I can't believe there is still old beef on this board.

Chad, I don't understand why you still harbor negative feelings towards GIAC when Todd@Protomotive found a fast solution to your problem using my car as a test bed? As long as the problem is solved, why do you care? If you didn't have access to Protomotive, it would be one thing... but as far as I can see, you and I have access to the best Porsche ECU tuner in the States, and maybe even one of the best in the world.

Ryan, were you ever running Protomotive software? I'm curious, because you always tout GIAC as being the best, so I'm wondering if you had bad experiences with Protomotive's software while your car was being tuned at S Car Go....

And Duane, I personally would like to see how your car would fare against my little "stock" blue car....

 

Ah a trick question sir....depends on the use, the driver and mileage. If you live on the tracks at high RPM then your numbers will go down substantially. The occasional driver or a car that is in stop and go traffic with only a few burst now and then will not have the same set of issues as one on the tracks. I suppose we can look at the average and say 650 would be the norm, but in all truth it depends on who and what is being done. A car that lives on the tracks would need much less HP to maintain the rods from moving or the bolts. You can keep an watchful eye by oil samples. By starting with an oil sample when new, you can sample the oil every time after to evaluate content for possible bearing wear. It will show up. It would be rare to add so much power that the rod simply will collapse. That is far less common then the rod oval-ing or the bolts stretching. The key is to start the process early on to watch.

 

Tyson, for me it is simply the principle of the matter.

 

Stephen,

Let me narrow it a bit. The redline would stay stock. It would taken to tracks for DE type events often along with being an everyday driver. The car would also be used cross country for long distances at high speeds that might get as high as 165 mph. If someone came along side for a drag, they wouldn't be denied.

Same question as above?

 

Stephen, a bit OT, but why the hell would you want to add an '02 or later dash to your '01?

It uses an additional subframe support structure, thus adding more dreaded WEIGHT!

Why do you think the GT3RS street version uses an '01 dash? No joke... this is one of the reasons why it is limited production, because Porsche did not want to manufacture a whole new batch of '01 dashes for a current model. Or at least that's what the press says.

 

To be honest Tyson there is less of a sub frame. They cut the main beam in a 1/3 then use a couple of trinket pieces to come around the glove box. My idiot dealer couldn't figure this out. So I have for them. There are no additional beams on the physical dash itself. In fact all they do is cut a hole in it. That's it. The main reason I had THEM do it was the dash was peeling at the top and had to be replaced. I would rather have a glove box. Comes in handy for my insurance card when getting a ticket Seriously though, there are more parts, yet they are much smaller in size then what is removed to accommodate. I suspect they are really using the dashes they have left over for the GT3RS. They have been known to create whole cars for left over motors....AKA 76 912.

 

Stephen,

Now you hurt my feelings. You responded to Tyson's question and ignored mine.

 

Well, the way I see it, if Porsche says the '01 dash configuration is lighter... I will keep mine that way a la GT3 RS.

You can keep your insurance card in your wallet. Who needs a stinkin small glove box anyway.

 

The fact that the redline is staying stock would be a plus, but the drag racing mean missed shifts. I don't care how good you are, if it has a SS then you will miss every now and then. That causes a mechanical over spin verses an accelerated over spin. I would say 650 or lower. The long sustained across country runs create big heat and will mature any preexisting weakness.

Hey Tyson I need somewhere to shove the 9 freakin cd for the GPS. Another thing that Porsche got wrong until later.

 

Thanks, you answered my question.

 

Hey Stephen, if you can ever figure out how to retrofit PCM II in our cars let me know.

I wish they at least had software updates like the BMW navs do.

 

Stephen,
Please expalin a few things relating to the above comment......

• Rod collapse.......Rods are considered a 2 force structural member in engineering. That means there is a force at the top of the rod (wrist pin) and at the bottom (journals/rod bolts). This equates to tension and compression depending where in the stroke you are at any given time. Example 1, spark plug fires, creates explosion, pushes down on piston, rod in compression. Example 2, crank rotates, piston on its way up cylinder, inertia from decelerating piston puts rod in tension. I was under the impression that rod failures were usually in tension due to the extreme inertial forces of the piston going up and having to be decelerated by the action of the crank journals. I also thought this was the reason for using the lightest pistons possible, to reduce the inertial forces as the piston decelerates at the top of the stroke. So, in actuality, compression failure is the culprit??????
• Ovalizing.........I thought this pertains to the cylinder walls as a result of the rod's diagonal force on the piston as it transitions from 270 degrees to 360 degrees around the crank journal with each stroke. Hence the use of very tough cylinder liners.
• Bolts stretching........Obviously you are referring to the rod bolts. Stretching is indicative of tensile failure as stated in #1. Please clarify.

Please know, of course I am not bashing, I am simply collecting knowledge.

If I interpret your comments correctly, the failure mechanisms can be any of the following:

• A rod can fail in compression due to extreme compression loads from more powerful explosions in the combustion chamber. Extreme loads can be due to higher boost, etc.
• Bolts can stretch (and maybe additionally rods can snap...my question) from a tensile failure.
• Cylinders can Ovalize from greater angular forces as the crank pushes the rod from 270 to 360 degrees in each stroke.

 

Oops!! I missed the word rare in your comment!!!

 

Ken,
You are correct that in most cases of failure with a Porsche rod it is from over spinning by causing undo stress on decel by pulling the rod back down. In the same manner forces from the top will create the same situation. You can see however the force would have to be very great to do it on a downward stroke. When more boost is added, you are adding pressure to the top of the piston and therefore more pressure in the chamber.Don't forget that while adding more pressure to the crown, you also add more pressure on the bearing. After all that is what cause the power gains is an effective raise in compression by forcing more air into the cylinder. Lots of ways for the rod to come apart, cracks, bends, etc.


It does, but also the large end of the rod can oval out as well. Either as a metal fatigue or from bolts stretching and causing the pressure to out of round the rod. The problem is the bearing also becomes out of round and ultimately will bind the bearing. Once bound the bearing is not lubricated properly and creates heat. Something has to give and it is the rod. Zoom, instant case ventilation.

I know you are just gathering info...from you never a need to clarify my friend...

 

KPV,

One of the problems with our turbo motors is the temperature of the inductive air charge. Particularily with stock or even GT2 intercoolers in conjunction with boost pressures above 1.3 bar. A tremendeous amount of heat is generated in the induction air. This tends to aid detonation. The fuel can ignite too much ahead of top dead center under certain circumstances. Talk about doing a number on your bearings, rods and pistons. I have temperature sensors before and after my intercoolers. I also have exhaust temperature probes located after each exhaust port. The temperature delta's at different boost levels are readily apparent and I have intercoolers with a far greater effiency than the GT2 intercoolers.