OK, I am going a little of topic here to follow your lead Chad.

I always knew to keep the induction charge temp as low as possible and have brainstormed ways to accommodate this. I guess it would be a good investment to pick up some GT2 intercoolers.

Question #1:
What delta T can I expect with GT2 IC's as compared to Stock IC's??

Question #2:
Wouldn't Gemballa's 3rd IC mounted atop the engine, stuck between the stock/GT2 IC's and the intake further reduce the charge air temp especially considering the Gemballa wing setup wherein the airstream coming down the rear glass is collected by the intake vents atop the engine cover and flows through the Gemballa 3rd IC and out the rear opening in the wing (refer to my pics to see the wing to refresh your memory)???





I always thought this was a really slick solution. Does it have merit???

Question #3:
Running with the 3rd IC concept for a moment. What if the 3rd IC was water cooled with an electric water pump and another radiator in the front of the car. Is all of this viable? Worth it?

 

My issue with number two is if you tunnel a Porsche you will see a layer of turbulence that is above the car. The air comes from the top of the roof then is bounced to the tail. The air never really is forced rather skips over the vents. The other issue is while the surface area is increased so is the intake track. The longer the runs of air the longer the time it takes to get air though the system. Especially on shifting when the CPV open up. The thing to consider is the air induction was never developed as the 993 and prior cars as the cooling is done via water. In the earlier cars the fan had to pull air in over the heads. Flow on the new one is only there to remove hot air from the bay. Thus the lack of engine sealing as well.

Water cooling would help, but then you need an additional radiator in the air flow.

I have no data on the delta between the two. Let me put it to you this way...I have never been able to reliably catch data that showed a delta between the two.

 

BTW that is a 993TT intercooler

 

KPV,

First of all I have not noticed any difference in power whenever the ambient air temperature is below 60 degrees F.

I can't answer question #1 because I didn't install the intercooler temperature sensors until after I installed the increased effiency custom intercoolers.

I have viewed the Gemballa intercoolers. Due to type of coil, square inches of coil area and depth, I believe they would be more efficient than the GT2 intercoolers. Remember, Porsche uses the GT2 intercoolers to 1.0 bar. I'm sure they are a little conservative, but by more than 10 to 20 percent. I doubt it.

A third water cooled IC would help under certain circumstances depending where they were located in relation to other existing coils.

As to being worth it. Do three to five dyno runs and look at how much your power drops on the last runs when the IC begins to get heat soaked. Most people who report dyno runs show the trophy run only. Not a real world indication at all.

 

I agree regarding the airstream smoke flow paths in a wind tunnel. I have witnessed this also. However, that airstream response is based upon the a stock (closed off) engine cover with a lot of corresponding air resistance. It is essentially a solid surface in its stock form. Air will flow from high to low pressure. If the engine bay cover is mostly closed off and the engine bay itself is packed with engine, the air cannot go anywhere. An artificially high pressure resistance has been created. Review the Gemballa wing minus the IC for a moment. There is a very easy path for the air to flow through the lid and out the back!! I would almost argue that it would be easier (read lower pressure path) for the air flow to go through the lid cover and out the back rather than over the wing.
Now stick an IC in the air's path. It has to have some benefit.

What I have described above was straight from Uwe Gemballa's mouth when I had the pleasure of speaking with him a few months ago.

 

Well, I am scheduled for 3 dyno runs tomorrow so I will look at the heat soak trend. Good idea!!

 

Well I say lets get a fan and a ton of Cohibas and lets wind tunnel the car

 

 

KPV,

Run four, one after another. You will be surprised. Then again, you are one of the few who have the larger Gemballa IC. If there are other 996's with stock or GT2 IC's. you will see what I am talking about.

Actually, just driving around town the stock and GT2 IC's are better. They don't require as much air movement to perform. Once you push it, the larger IC's are far and away the better way to go.

 

Chad,
I only have the stockers in my car. My question pertain to the benefit of purchasing GT2 IC's and better yet the Gemballa IC.

 

Ken, that should be interesting.

When I dynoed a while back at AWE...my numbers got stronger and stronger after each run.

Considering how cool it will be with virtually no humidity, you'll probably get some very impressive numbers. Wish I could be there. Hopefully someone will get some good footage.

 

Camcorder and Camera will be in hand!! (Cue Aussie accent) No worries mate!

 

BCS996tt,

I did say below 60 degrees F you probably would not notice a difference. The higher the ambient temperature, the more you will notice. Also, don't put your car on the dyno unless your oil is warmed up.... that is to say engine and tranny oil temperatures above 158 degrees F minimum. It takes at least ten minutes of normal driving (in my area) after the water temperature gets to 180 degrees for the oil temperatures to reach 158 degrees.

 

Duane,
Sorry about the thread hijack...............

 

Hammann, I really dont understand, and am frankly amused at you quoting me for something I never said....

"Ryan, were you ever running Protomotive software? I'm curious, because you always tout GIAC as being the best, so I'm wondering if you had bad experiences with Protomotive's software while your car was being tuned at S Car Go...."

My car never had protomotive software, and I never said GIAC was the best. I stated major props to Imagine / EVO (WHO HAPPENS TO BE A GIAC DEALER) for their service and delivery of a product and numbers they promised....PERIOD.

As far as Protomotive software - and your car running 10.7 in the quarter mile....well after spending $200,000 in R & D, after going to the shop back and fourth ten dozen times, I am quite dissappointed that a professional driver can only get 10.7.
After all, on street tires, I ran an 11.36 with Roock Stage III software, with 20K invested ..(With rims at 4K) in cold weather.
O/T, but Amazing how I ran an 11.0 on Yokos at 139 in my supra turbo with only 55K.

Would I consider Protomotive? Absolutely - but not interested in sending it to CA again. I think GIAC is a more cost effective solution, for 3 tenths of a 1/4 slower. Oh and I know you love to mention 1/4 miling for a car meant for the road course. WHY couldn't you beat Car Graphics?

"Ask Duane on how your car will compete against mine" - HOnestly, I don't care, but personally I consider myself a good driver so I wouldn't doubt it would be real real close.

So i'm not sure if you are here to display bigger set of muscles, or promote protomotive, but don't misquote me. I believe Protomotive is more involved when it comes to ecu tuning, but to me....I dont want to send my car back 10 times to get it right, and Kansas is a lot closer than CA.

Please don't fail to mention how many times your car had to go back to the shop, and how much was invested, and all the problems you had along the way... I got my car back in 7 days with shipping.


RS