OK....so I spend 500 bucks for a g-d upsolute chip think it's great and now gotta have more. dammit. question is what is best? EVO stage 4/5 whatever or RUF?

RUF is a no brainer for quality/reliability, etc. but appears to be signifcantly more $$$. Worth it?

 

A matter of taste or opinion. I think there are numerous dependable sources out there besides Ruf, but they (Ruf) are the known entity with the reputation and quality. To get that you have to pay more.

 

I htink going with a local tuner like EVO or Imagine Auto is better. They both stand behind their products 110%. I personally got my level 4 from Stephen at Imagine Auto and he is AWESOME.
If you look at a recent thread form the AWE dyno day, you can compare KPV's IA level 4 to Sean's (I think) RUF 550...The curves are sooooooo darn close. KPV had more TQ while Sean had more HP (we are talking minute diferences here)...
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...5&pagenumber=2

 

I would start by looking at the warranties. What does each offer?

 

 

1 year full warranty from Ruf....and i some cases beyond from what I hear.

 

msindi,

Please explain what you mean by your statement, "I htink going with a local tuner like EVO or Imagine Auto is better. They both stand behind their products 110%."

 

what sold me on Ruf was their reputation for standing behind their product, the quality of the product, and the worldwide reputation that was evident through repeated positive testimonials....

I can only say that having experienced Ruf through preliminary inquiries, a full conversion process, and subsequent enjoyment of a Ruf 550, I have nothing negative to say about the experience or company whatsoever !

First class outfit all the way

 

CJV I can see where you are headed here. OK, I believe none of the GIAC tuners normally offers a written guarantee during the first year. I also believe that if I have a problem in the first year ... and beyond, the GIAC guys will be there to back me up. How do I think this? I am a business man and they are business men ... who happen to share a passion for Porsches. OK, here is what I would expect and I'll bet this is what they would do.

Pretend you had a problem with your stage whatever during the first year. Pretend they didn't fix it and then you scream bloody murder on the boards. Their business drops 60% and they quit. Or, they take care of you, roughly no charge, and you sing their praises to high heaven (like almost everyone they have dealt with does) and their business increases 20%. Which would you choose as a business man? They are not stupid … and they are good men.

The most interesting point I would like to point out is that I have never heard of a Ruf problem in the first year. I have also never heard of a GIAC problem that was not addressed promptly and to the customer’s satisfaction at GIAC. So, does an implied warranty exist with GIAC ... yes. Legally binding? Maybe not but I am comfortable with holding their reputation over their necks so to speak. Now, will GIAC tuners offer a written 1 year guarantee for an additional price, I guarantee this also, and I’ll bet they will do it at a cost significantly below Ruf’s. So, I believe you can get equal or better performance and service than Ruf from local GIAC tuners at a lower cost. The resale value will be lower as GIAC tuners do not have the worldwide reputation, so might total ownership cost (cost +maintenance–sale value) be lower with the Ruf system? … maybe.

Personally, I will be going GIAC (or Protomotive) as I like the pressure this board holds them to and their proven integrity and glowing customer satisfaction. I do not mean to leave out Protomotive but this discussion was targeted at GIAC tuners. I personally don’t know enough about them yet but hey sure did well at the shootout. I will be going to Stage 4GTR or equivalent next winter and will make my decision by then.

 

I would base your decision on Local Support. With any tuner you might run into some problems with software, etc.... If you have a shop near by who supports Ruf and not EVO then I would go with Ruf and vice versa.

That is why I made my decision with Dinan when I have my M5 as they were in my backyard. So anytime I had any issues or wanting some tuning I would just drop it by whenever I wanted. That is why I also selected EVO as I have several shops near my house who can handle the GIAC software updates. And with the EVO kit, any Porsche shop can install the kit in one day.

My $.02

 

ColorChange,

I believe the question was. "RUF is a no brainer for quality/reliability, etc. but appears to be signifcantly more $$$. Worth it?"

Is it worth it? I don't know. I am interested in facts and figures. You stated, "CJV I can see where you are headed here." I believe you are making a big assumption. Yes, we all know who offers a warranty and who doesn't. Don't you think it might be more appropiate to determine what the warranty is worth and what is being charged for it? Is the warranty worth the cost?

I have no problem issuing praise where praise is due. Regardless of your preconceptions of me, I am perfectly capable of dressing down a tuner I like if I disagree with them. This includes S Car Go Racing. I have seen many instances over the last few years where people "shout praises" of their tuner only to be calling them "the scum of the earth" months later. Regarding Protomotive, I know first hand where they have installed a kit and the customer was not satisfied and their monies were returned. I also know of three occassions where the same has occurred with S Car Go Racing. I know of a case where Asgar, a Ruf representative sold an exhaust and the customer didn't like all the noise. Asgar modified the exhaust to make it quieter and if the customer still wasn't happy, he offered to return the monies. The customer was happy with the modification. I can vouch for these. If others can vouch for other tuners, well let's hear about it. This is not a flame on any tuner, just looking for real life experiences. I can also say I had a bad Bailey valve from AWE Tuning. It went bad almost a year after it was purchased and it was immediately replaced. Great service. If you want to go into bad experiences. I can relay more than a few.

So back to the question, is Ruf's extra cost worth it? Facts and figures and experiences where a tuner screw up and made it right only .... please.

 

OK CJV, I didn't say you were on a mission, just a strong implication in implying GIAC tuners don't offer warranties. My point was they do (from a practical staqndpoit), and I guarantee they will put it in writing for a price. I for one, don't need the writing. The warranty is implied, and I'm willing to bank on that.

I agree that I can’t offer hard experiences outside of a few purchases where most recently, Todd at EVO said if I am unhappy with my PSS9's, hell take them back. Did I specify at the same price, time frame, or other terms, ... no. Do I expect to lose a little cash if I return them? Sure, if I return them and he hammers me, I'll pound him. If I love them, I'll praise him. If I return them for a reasonable "restocking fee", I'll accept that also. Until now he has been very reasonable with me and yours is the first I have heard about an unsatisfied customer with Todd (outside of your software boost jihad). Has this issue been discussed in previous posts or should I call Todd out on it for his side of the story?

 

Chad,
What I meant by local was that if you have a problem with Ruf, you have to wait until a tech flys over from Germany and I think you need to foot the bill for his lodging in the US (at least you do for the installs from what someone posted if I recall...). Also, if you need new software or replacement parts it is easier to ship and deal with somoene locally due to shipping costs and time differences etc...Yes, I am aware that Weissach is a Ruf dealer for North America but all the techs still come from Germany...THis of course is my opinion...Besides, Ruf is overpriced for what you get...KPV got the same results through Imagine Auto for a LOT less $$$

 

ColorChange,

It was simple, I bought one of his earlier exhausts through Renntech @ $3,200. At the time I was shooting for 600 hp and they were aware of this. My tests were showing the exhaust was creating backpressure. I called Todd and he informed me the exhaust was good only to approx. 550 hp. They were not going to do anything. I then sold the exhaust and took the beating. EVO then changed (I believe discontinued) this exhaust. I contrast this with S Car Go having two people who did not like their long tube headers. One had the headers on the car for a little over one year. S Car Go took the headers back and gave a refund.

In addition, I do not consider GIAC a tuner (more of a ECU manufacturer/modifier), my problem with GIAC is well known. It has nothing to do with their product. I understand they have a great product. My gripe had to do with business practices and the way I was treated. I answered your questions because you asked, this post is not about bad experiences but good ones. That is why I deleted the one sentence in my above reply.

 

misindi,

Good points. How long do you have to wait? Do you know for a fact that the customer pays for the lodging? These are things people need to know in order to evaluate.

The question is still, is the warranty worth it? All costs need to be evaluated to make an educated decision. You guy make it sound like I am defending someone. I am not. Just want to see an honest evaluation.