Very well said

 

Craig,

I always try to keep my posts factual based, I certainly never attack EVOMS or anyone else because of what I heard or read or was told, which I could as well do if I wanted, just not my style. If I did, then only you could call me biased.

My post was strictly based on numbers posted here. I don't have any other data from any stage 4, and if there is, I will be happy to look into it as well.

As far as diverting a thread, I was simply answering to what Renntech posted:

The packages are clearly not comparable based on the info Markski gave, this package cost less than $4500 whereas the stage 4 costs $14,300 and it includes exhaust, headers and air intake modifications among others, which would put it at Divexxtreme's modifications level then and a trap of 136mph.

The GT2 shown here is about 1.5 seconds faster than the stage 4 between 95-122mph, which is substantial. If this stage 4 car was particularily slow, I don't know, but Renntech was saying that even with more weight, the Stage 4 seemed faster I think. I would certainly expect it anyway.

I don't care who is faster or not, none are my cars, but when I see data that does not reflect what I am told, I tend to analyze things a bit more, that's it.

 

Joe, thanks for posting the times. I am al little confused though and wonder if you can clarify for me one thing, on your sig you show as your 996TT doing almost the same times and speed with almost 250hp more to the wheels than the Proto tuned GT2. Are your numbers corrected as well for the TT?
I am not trying to PO anyone here but just asking, I went with Proto for a number of reasons and for the $4500 I spent and not having to pull the engine out to do anything major other than taking the turbos out I think the numbers are awesome. I didnt know a Stage 4 cost almost 4 times as much.

Bajo

 

I totally agree with Scott. You are wrong about him, his post was careful to be polite and non argumentative. He's a stand up guy with real world results under his belt. How about some respect?

 

Joe,

Any videos of the GT2 at the strip ? I for sure would love to see it as that car has never seen a drag strip until you broke its cherry, LOL !

Bajo

 

My GT700 trapped at 136mph on 19" wheels uncorrected, that's considerably faster. I already had K24's in my TT, and the price was nowhere near 4 times as much. The GT700 made 641hp at the ground. The GT2 made 518.

 

Let's get the facts straight first Jean. You say that the Stage 4 costs $14,300 vs $4,500. The price you quoted for Stage 4 includes Turbo chargers, exhaust and many other hardware items that this GT2 already came with, so your comparison is very misleading. You also forgot to add that the stage 4 comes with a GIAC programmer and software that allows you to switch fuel maps and maximize your HP for the fuel you use. I personally don't like the GReddy boost controller in this car and think it belongs in a Honda or Mitsubishi not a GT2. Compare apples to apples and price out the exact same items and post your findings.

I didn't say the Stage 4 "seemed faster" I said IT IS FASTER. My stage 4 trapped at 126 at the same track in the same conditions, you can analyze the data from other cars and try to extrapolate all you like, but on the same track in the same conditions the heavier Stage 4 WAS faster, period.

 

"Haters"? I hope you aren't categorizing me as a EVOMS hater. Just because I prefer Protomotive, doesn't mean I hate EVOMS. I actually like EVOMS and IA, and I think Todd and Stephen are both stand-up guys. And I will post and congratulate you when you run your GT2 700 at the track.

Unlike you, I post congratulations to everyone that runs a good time...regardless of who their tuner is.

My post was about using accurate sea-level correction factors, and nothing more. I would have posted it regardless of which tuner you use.

 

Unlike me? Do a little research, and see if I go out of my way to criticize other people's packages and results, no I don't I let others do that. It seems that there are a select few who like to criticize anything that is not comparable to what they are running. You won't find 1 post on this forum where I choose to chime in and diss others, please find me an instance where I been negative toward someone who has posted results at the track, dyno or otherwise!

 

Ditto and +1. Joe has always been a class act as it relates to other people's cars.

Scott, you are not one of the guys that I perceive as having a bug up his *** for EVOMS. Rather, you are generally very complimentary of all cars.

It is my general impression that EVOMS customers are respectful of Protomotive customers, and quick to compliment the achievements of Protomotive cars, whereas a couple of Protomotive customers frequently criticize EVOMS and regularly dispute the performance attributes of cars tuned by EVOMS. This phenomenon is much more open and blatant on Rennlist.

Jean was so desirous of furthering this agenda that he took a ¼ mile time and a 60-130 mph time for two completely different cars, and somehow extrapolated 95-122 mph times from both, then trumpeted his conclusion that the Protomotive car is faster and cheaper than a EVOMS Stage 4. . . . he did this in a thread that has NOTHING to do with EVOMS Stage IV cars. Interestingly, Jean ignored the prior posts of his Protomotive brethren, Markski, stating that Stage IV cars (EVOMS included) consistently run +/- 11.5, which is considerably faster than the lighter, 2wd Protomotive tuned GT2 than ran a 11.98 (all times uncorrected). Jean likewise ignored the 126 trap speed recorded by Joe’s EVOMS Stage IV, which is considerably higher than the lighter, 2wd Protomotive tuned GT2. Jean likewise ignored the 11.7-11.9 times that have been posted by EVOMS Stage 2 cars, which are also faster than the 11.98 recorded by the lighter, 2wd Protomotive tuned GT2 (didn’t Scott run an 11.7 ish time in a Stage 2 car). Instead, Jean extrapolated a 95-122 mph time that better served to advance his cause.

On the cost issue, Jean disingenuously used the $14,300 price charged by EVOMS for a 996TT Stage IV, then compared it to the $4500 price ostensibly charged by Protomotive for the subject GT2 (which already has the K24 turbos). Jean conveniently ignored that EVOMS charges $4500 LESS for a GT2 Stage IV: (http://www.evoms.com/marketplace/Vie...B0979C88F40%7D ). Again, Jean sought to create the largest disparity possible in order to advance his agenda, even though the accurate pricing was available on the same website he researched.

I recognize that comparisons are inevitable and sometimes useful. However, when making such comparisons, one should use ACCURATE data and compare apples to apples, rather than bending over backwards to construct a comparison that is obviously designed to advance a blatant bias. Moreover, I personally don’t think it is productive for certain people to constantly seek to undermine the efforts of other tuners, in threads that don’t lend themselves to such comparisons.

Craig

 

What I said was: "Unlike you, I post congratulations to everyone that runs a good time...regardless of who their tuner is. I didn't say you diss or post negative comments. You just withhold congratulatory comments to guys with different tuners than EVOMS.

Case in point...when I ran my 10.65 in my Protomotive car, you didn't take the time to post a simple "congrats" in my thread....even though I posted one in your thread when you ran the 11.3 with your GT700 car prior to that.

Is it a big deal? Of course not. But when you talk about "EVOMS haters" I find it a bit funny, since, to be perfectly honest...I've always gotten the impression that you hate anything that isn't tuned by EVOMS.

 

God there's alot going on in this thread, now i know how you guys felt in the other one

Anyway Scott ran 11.6 at 126mph with i believe a 1.8-1.9 60 foot which is incredible. He had the Hammer stg 2 package with evo v flow, on 19" HRE's and street tires, track was probably ideal BUT, he can flat out drive!

Anyway in regards to the Stg 4 Evo 996TT/GT2 Protomotive comparison, despite not being really equal in terms of money and parts, dont you think the AX22 data would be more accurate if done back to back considering not all track's and driver's are the same and ideal?! I feel that should show which is real world faster, not so much on a drag strip where driver skill is so important!

Also Joe, dont mean to get in the middle of this but your first post said the GT2 seems to be far superior compared to your old turbo, that would be the GT700 package turbo? But then in another post a few up here on the 3rd page, you said that a stg 4 is faster, im a bit confused?! "I didn't say the Stage 4 "seemed faster" I said IT IS FASTER." Thanks!?

Martin

 

HAPPY 4th of JULY.... I know it is early but the fireworks have already started LOL

 

Power wise there is no comparison, obviously the car with 120 more RWHP is faster. My TT was stage4 before it was a GT700, I thought everyone knew that, sorry if it was confusing. By better performance with the GT2, I was referring to the feel of the car, it's nimbleness,tightness, handling and the RWD component.

 

If I failed to post a congratulatory note I apologize, I think I remember posting one when you made your initial dyno pulls. I could care less what people choose to mod their cars with. I love anything fast; 911s, Vipers, Vettes, Evos, Bikes, etc. I think the time has come to bury the hatchet and stop the infueding among our Porsche Loving bretheren. Why don't we concentrate our collective energies against the real enemy...DOMESTICS