anyone very familiar with this track? I am going to be driving it for the first time tomorrow. Any advice you can give would be appreciated.

here's a drawing of the track...

http://www.redlinetrackevents.com/im...adcourseLg.gif

-Steve

 

Very fun and easy track. Not sure of your experience or car set up but if you get going pretty well you should be able to get under a 1:40, if you don't... don't worry about it...this is all for fun.

Don't any of this stuff below untill you have driven around the track and gotten to know it well first...then have fun

So, here we go for a lap around willow:

As your coming down the straight flat out stab the brakes, drop down a gear or two into turn 1 and most likely hold that gear all the way through the loooonnggg turn 2, try not to up shift as you exit 2 and you'll be hard on the brakes and drop another gear coming into turn 3 then stand on it going up the hill. At the top of turn 4 it can be quite bumpy so, find the smoothest line you can. When coming off 4 you're gain speed really fast because you're going down hill. Your set up for 5 is important so carry as much speed as possible because you don't want to lift again til turn 9 or at least turn 8 if possible. If you get through turn 5 fast it sets you to go airborn over the top of turn 6 so don't take the top too wide or you'll jump right into the dirt . Still holding flatout and up shifting through turn 7, you'll most likely lift going into turn 8. If you're lifting it's ok but really try not to brake or down shift because there are one good bump back there that could upset the car too much so, the best thing to do is just lighten up a bit earlier and carry the speed. (note: it takes a while to get up to speed through turn 8 but that's where the time comes from. Once you are comfortable in turn 8, you can hall *** through there) Depending on your gearing you most likely won't have to down shift for turn 9 just let it down to about 3800 and torque through it. It won't feel as fast but it will be faster.... Now flat out again down the straight getting ready to do it one more time!

 

Offroader,

Here are my notes on Willow Springs. I haven't been there in about three years. But I don't think much has changed.

Please note that I was driving a Spec RX7. Much less HP than you will have. So, my throttle application (and especially full throttle) points were probably much earlier than yours will be. Also, your gearing may require slightly different shift points.

Last thing before the hot lap description. Cary said you should be able to do under 1:40. You better! Spec RX7s do 1:41s with only 105-110 HP at the rear wheels.

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A hot lap at Willow goes something like this. As you approach the end of the front straight, you bring the car over to the far right hand side to set the car up for braking. Heavy braking (and possibly a heel and toe downshift) is required at the end of the straight. Turn 1 is a banked 90-degree left that is generally taken in top gear, or one gear lower. Since the entry to turn 1 is banked it can be taken at a higher speed than is apparent at first. A late apex is warranted as the exit is slightly off camber (which can create problems); over the course of the day several cars went off at the exit to 1 after overcooking the corner. It is a spectacular sight (i.e. a huge dust cloud is created) when cars leave the track at Willow since there is nothing but dirt on all sides of the track. Since the entry to turn 1 is at the end of the front straight, it is also a great place to pass.

Turn 2, called the rabbit’s ear (a loose description of its shape), is a fast, never-ending sweeper. Most cars run slightly inside the middle of the road and exit on the backside, about 3/4 of the way into the corner. In a low HP car like the Spec RX, it can be taken in top gear (ignoring 5th., the fuel economy gear). In fact, once I got used to the track, I was able to avoid braking (or lifting) before entering the corner - making it an excellent place to pass if you have the nerve.

Turns 3 and 4 are best considered as a pair. Turn 3 is the slowest corner on the track. It requires a downshift as you brake deep into the corner. At this point, the road climbs uphill and to the left. Here you take a late apex. As you continue to climb the hill, the car will drift over to the right. At this point, you can either double apex 4, or (in a low HP car) keep the car over toward the middle of the road and maintain a constant radius. Turn 4 should be apexed very late just as the turn tightens and starts to head downhill. (Note, the second apex will be very late if you are double apexing.)

Turn 5 is critical in lower HP cars - like the SRX. The downhill run allows you to build speed quickly. However, to maintain that speed, you need to carry as much momentum as possible through 5 WITHOUT scrubbing off unnecessary speed. This was particularly difficult this weekend since the track had recently developed a new washboard effect in the middle of turn 5. In the SRX, the best approach was to give up a little in 5 and apex just early enough to avoid the washboard effect. When early apexing 5, the car will naturally exit at the apex for 6. The rest is a piece of cake. Just keep it floored through 7 and 8 and 9! OK, a little more detail is warranted.

Turn 7 is barely noticeable (just a gentle bend in the circuit) and turn 8 is a simple, fast sweeper. Only the exit to 8 is tricky since this is where you must set up for the infamous turn 9. The basic strategy through 8 is to enter early and drive around the inside of the corner. No defined apex is taken, however, you must let the car drift out to the left edge of the course prior to entering turn 9. Turn 9 is legendary since it is a top gear, 90-degree, decreasing radius right hander, with an invisible exit (i.e., you can’t see the exit until you are past the apex). Apparently this corner scares the crap out of half of the drivers that come to Willow Springs. For some strange (sick and twisted?) reason, I really enjoyed it. It didn’t seem particularly scary and most people seemed to go through it rather slowly. That enabled me to gain enormous amounts of real estate before entering the front straight and setting up for a pass. It also enabled me to intimidate and pass a few drivers at the exit from 8/entry to 9. In any event, the secretcto 9 (as best I can tell) is to pick a set of consistent reference points for the entry, apex, and exit. Most cars need to tap their brakes, or lift slightly, just prior to entering 9. The apex is just to the left of a small dip in the pavement (that is best avoided!). You should have the throttle on the floor before touching the apex. The exit brings you out to the far left hand side of the course (preferably not into the dirt). As long as you don’t loose your nerve, your foot will stay planted until you reach the end of the front straight and start your next lap.

 

Offroadr35 ... I'd love to hear your thoughts on Willow. Did you have fun?? Can you give us one of your laps?

 

Racer63 Keep in mind the power to weight ratio He's in a 3400 pound plus street car with street tires and a turbo car is much more complicated to make go fast than an NA car. I did a high 22 in the car that I won the tribute to leMans race in when it had the 270 hp engine. The new owner put a 700 plus hp twin turbo in it and had problems getting into the 21's and he's a good driver.
The 1:40 was just to give him a first time range...

 

i only brought the cobra today. I think the shocks are shot and the springs are WAAAYYY too soft. It made it a real handful on the track. I had 2 really good saves and one spin out that was totally my fault (heel got caught under the accelerator during a heel-toe downshift. Left foot released the clutch out of habit and around i went. ended up facing the right way and on the track though so no big deal).

Anyway, with the very poorly set up car, my first time driving it on the track and my first time on that track i was pretty much running 1:42 all day. I made at least one big mistake on every lap though and the car made me pay. My guess is that once i get it set up right and get some more experience with it it will be a low 30s car.

EDIT: in case you're curious i was pushing 145 on the front straight even though i had to brake really early cuz of the ****ty suspension.

-Steve

 

I can definitely sympathize on the poorly set up car issue. I've been there too. Not only does the car fight you, but if you don't have confidence in it, you can't really push it where you need to. Especially not at Willow where and off can be pretty treacherous.

I've seen that track eat quite a few cars over the years - including four in one weekend a few years back. I almost escaped that weekend without damage... but on the last corner, last lap, this a-hole (unfortunately a good friend of mine ) slammed into my door and threw me into the path of a Miata (and a tow truck) that had spun and stalled on the front straight. Ugly! But, I managed to avoid the Miata/tow truck. Would you believe the melee was so bad, the flaggers completely missed the fact that my a-hole friend passed/hit me under yellow just before shoving me toward the Miata/tow truck.

Any way... Low 1:30s sounds like a pretty reasonable goal. I think ITS cars are still running mid 1:30s at WSIR. So, low 1:30s should definitely be do-able in the Cobra once you get it set up.

 

Cary,

I think a bone stock 996TT can definitely do better than 1:40. But, first time on the track... that complicates issues. So, I can appreciate your line of thinking.

The spec RX7, though, has the power to weight ratio of a sea slug! It weighs 2350 lbs without driver. With about 105 HP at the rear wheels, it works out to be about 120 at the crank. So, you've got about 22-23 lbs per HP vs. about 8 lbs per HP for the turbo.

Most Spec RX7 drivers would lose a drag race vs. their own tow vehicle (possibly vs. the tow vehicle with trailer!). They're pure momentum cars.

 

yeah man the track ate a few cars today. there was a kid in a BRAND new 350Z that had never driven on a track before. Literally this car had about 100 miles on it and still didn't even have plates. He locked up going into 1 and drove straight off at probably well over 100, busted up the front body work pretty bad.

I'd say there were about 8-10 spins/off tracks. That was the worst damage though to the best of my knowledge. It seems like the exit of 2 gave the most problems.

There were 4 guys there with Radical SR3s that were SUPER fast. They were all in the very low 1:20s. One guy's was turbo charged and is the car that holds the record at the Nurburgring, 7:11!!

-Steve

 

are you sure they didn't change the track or something? I find it hard to believe a stock 996 TT on street tires could run under 1:40 unless it was piloted by a super good driver. There was an SRT-10 Competition Coupe on Hoosiers today that was only pulling about 1:35. The fastest cars there other than the Radicals seemed to all be mid to high 30s and that was race prepped cars with very experienced drivers. Maybe my timing was just off though or something about the track conditions was just slow today....

 

Doesn't look like anything has changed to me. Here are some lap records for various classes. Note Varco's 2002 SRX7 time, Martinez's 2003 ITA time and White's 2003 T2 time. These are pretty much spot on with the times that guys in these classes have been turning there for some time.

http://www.calclub.com/html/html2/20...rwy7_08_03.htm

ITS 01:34.495 RICH MOLONY / Palos Verdes Est., CA CSCC DATSUN 2/23/1997 (this was a 70-72 240Z)

SRX-7 01:40.477 DAVID VARCO CSCC MAZDA RX-7 2/24/2002 (Dave is a long time friend of mine. He's been racing Spec RX7 for years. The 1:40 was an especially good day. Most front runners run 1:41-1:42)

T1 01:28.864 SCOTTY WHITE/ Puyallup,AZ CSCC CORVETTE 2/23/2003 (Scotty was running 2nd or 3rd this year at the runoffs in this same T1 Z06 Vette, before it broke. The T1 vette is still a street legal Z06)

PRO7 01:38.225 BOB NEAL/Harbor City CSCC MAZDA RX-7 2/23/2003 (The pro7 is pretty similar to a spec 7, except the spec 7 uses an off the shelf spring, shock sway bar setup with the stock strut housings. The Pro 7 runs a more advanced coil over setup, but is otherwise a 120-125 HP motor, 2300 lb car)

SSC 01:40.011 BILL HAGERTY / San Diego Ca SD NISSAN 6/13/1999 (I used to instruct for SCCA San Diego region with Bill. He did this time in a showroom stock Nissan Sentra SE-R)

The following three guys were always in the same run group as me when I raced Spec RX7. Cars involved are a Honda CRX (the early 90s version), an ancient BMW 2002, and an 80s Rabiit.

ITA 01:34.726 BERNARDO MARTINEZ/ Redondo Beach, CA CSCC HONDA 2/23/2003
ITB 01:37.602 KEVIN MC DONALD/ Newhall, CA CSCC BMW 2002 6/12/1999
ITC 01:38.951 FRANK CERVETTO /Canyon Country, CA CSCC VW RABBIT 2/22/1997

I think your Cobra estimate of low 1:30s is spot on. Your intuition sounds right to me. If anything, you'll probably do better than you think (i.e., faster than low 1:30s).

 

it really is a cool track and super easy to drive. i never found a great line in 4 or 5, had to lift just before the crest at 7 or would have totally lost it, and never got good braking coming into 1 so blew that corner a few times.

Overall the back straight was pretty much a mess for me as a driver and is where i will pick up some SERIOUS time once i run a few more times there in a properly set up car.

-Steve

 

Sounds like you had a great time!! Hopefully the stuff Racer and I wrote was of some help ... keep on burning up those tires! There's no replacement for track time.

 

It's definitely one of my favorites. Unfortunately I don't get out there much these days. There's a ton of time to be made on the back straight as well as coming down the front straight. Although if you were hitting 145, you were moving pretty good! In the Spec RXs we used to run there, we couldn't see 145 down hill with a strong tailwind and a two mile straight section of track!

 

I'll probably feel like an idiot for asking but what the hell is a spec RX-7. Never heard of one? Must be a type of FB or FC, huh?