996 Turbo / GT2 Turbo discussion on previous model 2000-2005 Porsche 911 Twin Turbo and 911 GT2.

Benifits of going RWD?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Rate Thread
 
  #1  
Old 09-24-2006, 09:57 PM
Rambino's Avatar
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Miami Fl
Posts: 64
Rep Power: 21
Rambino is infamous around these parts
Benifits of going RWD?

So.. what are the benifits of going RWD on the 996 TT.. and how do you do it.. ? and why? I know the GT2 is rwd, and so is the GT3.. But isnt the AWD system amazing on this car and doesnt it add for traction? I would assume the only reason to go rwd is HP..? does this totally remove the awd system?
 
  #2  
Old 09-24-2006, 10:18 PM
ScottKelly911's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,119
Rep Power: 142
ScottKelly911 has a reputation beyond reputeScottKelly911 has a reputation beyond reputeScottKelly911 has a reputation beyond reputeScottKelly911 has a reputation beyond reputeScottKelly911 has a reputation beyond reputeScottKelly911 has a reputation beyond reputeScottKelly911 has a reputation beyond reputeScottKelly911 has a reputation beyond reputeScottKelly911 has a reputation beyond reputeScottKelly911 has a reputation beyond reputeScottKelly911 has a reputation beyond repute
besides the parasitic power loss of all four wheels, there's also the issue of weight savings. As for traction, if you're a really good driver, you can minimize the effects and the additional power to weight ratio eclipses the traction loss. This has been discussed at length, here's a good place to start. Also IllM3 hsa done this conversion and seems to love it as well. Next best thing to a true GT2 https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...eel+conversion
 
  #3  
Old 09-24-2006, 10:36 PM
markski@markskituning's Avatar
Basic Sponsor
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: CHICAGO
Age: 55
Posts: 9,720
Rep Power: 601
markski@markskituning Is a GOD !markski@markskituning Is a GOD !markski@markskituning Is a GOD !markski@markskituning Is a GOD !markski@markskituning Is a GOD !markski@markskituning Is a GOD !markski@markskituning Is a GOD !markski@markskituning Is a GOD !markski@markskituning Is a GOD !markski@markskituning Is a GOD !markski@markskituning Is a GOD !
I have mine done as well.... just awaiting on the car... I think its a good call to do it... lighter, nimbler.... etc...
 
__________________

2001 996TT 3.6L and stock ECU
9.66
seconds @ 147.76 mph 1/4 mile
click to view
160 mph @ 9.77 seconds in 1/4 mile click to view
50% OFF ON PORSCHE ECU TUNING BLACK FRIDAY SPECIAL




  #4  
Old 09-24-2006, 11:57 PM
crazy1323's Avatar
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 778
Rep Power: 0
crazy1323 is infamous around these parts
also the car is very very hard to launch with AWD.
 
  #5  
Old 09-25-2006, 02:34 AM
Turbo Fanatic's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: In a Canyon - Really :)
Posts: 4,880
Rep Power: 288
Turbo Fanatic Is a GOD !Turbo Fanatic Is a GOD !Turbo Fanatic Is a GOD !Turbo Fanatic Is a GOD !Turbo Fanatic Is a GOD !Turbo Fanatic Is a GOD !Turbo Fanatic Is a GOD !Turbo Fanatic Is a GOD !Turbo Fanatic Is a GOD !Turbo Fanatic Is a GOD !Turbo Fanatic Is a GOD !
IMO the car will have very similar traction in the dry (still hard to launch with nasty wheel hop) and will feel a little more poweful with better steering feedback.

The FWD takes 5% of the torque. So it feels like 5% more power which is significant in 400+ HP cars.

For the record my car only has the front driveshaft removed, so no weight gain, but it IS easily reversed.
 

Last edited by Turbo Fanatic; 09-25-2006 at 11:34 AM.
  #6  
Old 09-25-2006, 07:29 AM
kiko's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Porto/Portugal
Age: 46
Posts: 429
Rep Power: 37
kiko is infamous around these parts
Well Guys I must disagree on this one. I tried 2WD but after 4 days of testing I went back to 4WD due to to two major issues, the lack of LSD and the need to replace the rear arm bushings with harder units (just like Jean said...). The lack of LSD makes the car lose traction when coming out of slow, tight corners (hence the fact the GT2's come stock with LSD) and also invalidates the use of PSM as its not calibrated for 2WD and these small losses of traction (even when you can't notice them) will trigger the PSM. I also couldn't cope with the rear geometry giving under acceleration (I'm very sensitive to alignment) but I reckon the extra power and steering wheel felt great.
 
  #7  
Old 09-25-2006, 07:42 AM
Divexxtreme's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 8,510
Rep Power: 788
Divexxtreme Is a GOD !Divexxtreme Is a GOD !Divexxtreme Is a GOD !Divexxtreme Is a GOD !Divexxtreme Is a GOD !Divexxtreme Is a GOD !Divexxtreme Is a GOD !Divexxtreme Is a GOD !Divexxtreme Is a GOD !Divexxtreme Is a GOD !Divexxtreme Is a GOD !
The cars won’t handle correctly on the stock suspension if you convert to RWD. You need to upgrade suspension, and along with that, I highly recommend corner balancing. My car with aftermarket JIC coil-overs and corner balancing handles perfectly. Much better than it did with AWD.

As far as traction, it comes down to what tires you are running. Street tires won’t cut it if you are making a lot of power. I ran street tires initially, but spun too much. Now I run R-compounds...just like the GT2 does. Lacking LSD has NOT been an issue for me on R-compounds….even with 600 rwhp.


One thing I should mention, even though I don’t have a LSD…when my car loses traction, BOTH tires spin. Not just one. Explain that one.
 

Last edited by Divexxtreme; 09-25-2006 at 08:04 AM.
  #8  
Old 09-25-2006, 07:49 AM
SMR's Avatar
SMR
SMR is offline
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 706
Rep Power: 50
SMR is a jewel in the roughSMR is a jewel in the roughSMR is a jewel in the roughSMR is a jewel in the rough
Do it but install a LSD
 
  #9  
Old 09-25-2006, 09:57 AM
Kaizu's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Finland, Luxembourg, Nürburgring
Posts: 710
Rep Power: 61
Kaizu has much to be proud ofKaizu has much to be proud ofKaizu has much to be proud ofKaizu has much to be proud ofKaizu has much to be proud ofKaizu has much to be proud ofKaizu has much to be proud ofKaizu has much to be proud ofKaizu has much to be proud ofKaizu has much to be proud of
No personal experience but a powerful RWD TT without LSD...
...after a couple of laps I would think it definitely needs a LSD...
 

Last edited by Kaizu; 09-25-2006 at 10:05 AM.
  #10  
Old 09-25-2006, 02:06 PM
Rambino's Avatar
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Miami Fl
Posts: 64
Rep Power: 21
Rambino is infamous around these parts
The 996 TT doesnt have a LSD?? I never knew that.. what a pity.. why? why would porsche do this? I mean even Subarus with AWD have LSD on the rear.. Thats just wrong imo.. Like the E55 AMG.. NO LSD Dont get it..

BY the way Divv. Your 2 wheels spinning without LSD can be explained with PSM. Just like the E55 Amg, both wheels burn out but no LSD.. This is explained by the system automatically braking each wheel seperatley at an extremely fast rate.. This transfers torque back and forth between both wheels. Causeing them both to spin.. Its sort of a fake electronic LSD.. Thats how the Benz's work..

Does Quaife make LSD's for the 996TT? And I wonder what about doing the opposite.. and adding a LSD with the AWD would make an Awsome handler..
 
  #11  
Old 09-25-2006, 03:28 PM
kiko's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Porto/Portugal
Age: 46
Posts: 429
Rep Power: 37
kiko is infamous around these parts
Turbos don't need LSD in stock form because unlike subarus they are low, tarmac set up cars with stiffer sway bars and big rubber but most of all because the engine is sitting on the top of the rear wheels providing a HUGE traction advantage. There are several options to be fitted in a Turbo.

About making them "awsome handlers"...LSD's don't improve handling by themselves actually its the other way round because they promote understeer by having the inner wheel push the car in a straight line as well, this acentuates understeering behaviour and after adding an LSD you usually have to sort out the car again adjusting sway bars, different alignment and lower the front (or raising the rear) to get the extra load on the front axle.
 
  #12  
Old 09-25-2006, 04:23 PM
03-turbo911's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Bahrain
Posts: 4,992
Rep Power: 228
03-turbo911 is a splendid one to behold03-turbo911 is a splendid one to behold03-turbo911 is a splendid one to behold03-turbo911 is a splendid one to behold03-turbo911 is a splendid one to behold03-turbo911 is a splendid one to behold03-turbo911 is a splendid one to behold
Originally Posted by kiko
About making them "awsome handlers"...LSD's don't improve handling by themselves actually its the other way round because they promote understeer by having the inner wheel push the car in a straight line as well, this acentuates understeering behaviour and after adding an LSD you usually have to sort out the car again adjusting sway bars, different alignment and lower the front (or raising the rear) to get the extra load on the front axle.
Right on the money.
 
  #13  
Old 09-25-2006, 05:01 PM
robmd99's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Texas
Age: 58
Posts: 3,597
Rep Power: 203
robmd99 has a reputation beyond reputerobmd99 has a reputation beyond reputerobmd99 has a reputation beyond reputerobmd99 has a reputation beyond reputerobmd99 has a reputation beyond reputerobmd99 has a reputation beyond reputerobmd99 has a reputation beyond reputerobmd99 has a reputation beyond reputerobmd99 has a reputation beyond reputerobmd99 has a reputation beyond reputerobmd99 has a reputation beyond repute
Evo or Imagine Auto Chime in!!!

Would like to know what Evo did to there monster turbo when making it a RWD, and Stephen can you tell me the process your company performs when transforming a AWD to a RWD

thanks
 
  #14  
Old 09-25-2006, 05:09 PM
steve harris's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: rocklin ca
Posts: 3,658
Rep Power: 259
steve harris Is a GOD !steve harris Is a GOD !steve harris Is a GOD !steve harris Is a GOD !steve harris Is a GOD !steve harris Is a GOD !steve harris Is a GOD !steve harris Is a GOD !steve harris Is a GOD !steve harris Is a GOD !steve harris Is a GOD !
so is it a smart move to just remove drive shaft and drie for a few days. have driven mine for a hour or so that way their is a difference..however it is so nice to forget about the NEVER TAKE YOUR FOOT OFF THE GAS THING if you come into a turn a little fast.. i just let off and the front tires grab and t'm done....what a min did i say that , what fun is that...sliding around is fun..
 
  #15  
Old 09-25-2006, 05:32 PM
iLLM3's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: SOFLA/NYC
Posts: 16,297
Rep Power: 716
iLLM3 Is a GOD !iLLM3 Is a GOD !iLLM3 Is a GOD !iLLM3 Is a GOD !iLLM3 Is a GOD !iLLM3 Is a GOD !iLLM3 Is a GOD !iLLM3 Is a GOD !iLLM3 Is a GOD !iLLM3 Is a GOD !iLLM3 Is a GOD !
Originally Posted by ScottKelly911
besides the parasitic power loss of all four wheels, there's also the issue of weight savings. As for traction, if you're a really good driver, you can minimize the effects and the additional power to weight ratio eclipses the traction loss. This has been discussed at length, here's a good place to start. Also IllM3 hsa done this conversion and seems to love it as well. Next best thing to a true GT2 https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...eel+conversion
RWD was the single best mod for this car, i do love it!

Originally Posted by ari
IMO the car will have very similar traction in the dry (still hard to launch with nasty wheel hop) and will feel a little more poweful with better steering feedback.

The FWD takes 5% of the torque. So it feels like 5% more power which is significant in 400+ HP cars.

For the record my car only has the front driveshaft removed, so no weight gain, but it IS easily reversed.
Exactly, i have some GOOD power too, which in my m3 with like 50 less hp and like 150+ less torque it would be shredding through tires. My car not even fully dialed in or setup suspension wise because i cant get a perfect setup, still has no traction issues at all. When it gets really cool out or coming out of a turn in 2nd i get some spinning in the upper rpm range, even in turns and coming out of them, especially with the GT3 swaybars i can position the car into oversteer and it just snaps back, the car has no understeer now even without an LSD!!


Originally Posted by kiko
Well Guys I must disagree on this one. I tried 2WD but after 4 days of testing I went back to 4WD due to to two major issues, the lack of LSD and the need to replace the rear arm bushings with harder units (just like Jean said...). The lack of LSD makes the car lose traction when coming out of slow, tight corners (hence the fact the GT2's come stock with LSD) and also invalidates the use of PSM as its not calibrated for 2WD and these small losses of traction (even when you can't notice them) will trigger the PSM. I also couldn't cope with the rear geometry giving under acceleration (I'm very sensitive to alignment) but I reckon the extra power and steering wheel felt great.
I dont know what was wrong with your car or setup, very weird to hear. I would think something was up suspension wise with your car, like i said and a few others we have had no problems what so ever, especially with traction loss and we are pushing out power, especially Scott!

Originally Posted by Divexxtreme
The cars won’t handle correctly on the stock suspension if you convert to RWD. You need to upgrade suspension, and along with that, I highly recommend corner balancing. My car with aftermarket JIC coil-overs and corner balancing handles perfectly. Much better than it did with AWD.

As far as traction, it comes down to what tires you are running. Street tires won’t cut it if you are making a lot of power. I ran street tires initially, but spun too much. Now I run R-compounds...just like the GT2 does. Lacking LSD has NOT been an issue for me on R-compounds….even with 600 rwhp.


One thing I should mention, even though I don’t have a LSD…when my car loses traction, BOTH tires spin. Not just one. Explain that one.
Yea i havent tried it with stock suspension setup so i wouldnt really know, but im sure you do and makes sense. I mean the ROW suspension was all wallowy and horrible feeling in awd LOL! Anyway you have 100more rwhp then me and more so in torque and still dont have major traction issues with upgraded tires, that's what i LOVE about these cars, they were setup to handle power! BTW launching is not a problem anymore, so easy to control power and i leave 2 strips of rubber also with PSM off!!
 


You have already rated this thread Rating: Thread Rating: 0 votes,  average.

Quick Reply: Benifits of going RWD?



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:27 PM.