My problems with PCNA, my dealership over my 2004 GT3
#16
10-22-2006, 01:03 AM
I am not surprised by anything those $tealers do. They are only your friends when trying to sell you a car. The term "used car salesman" has the negative connotation justly.
I would not give up on that. I have faced the same attitude at the BMW dealership here in town with my M5. I have tracked it only 3 times and was very reasonable, but when I went in for brakes or when the clutch went at 33K ( common pro with those E39 M5's) they wouldn't cover without an extensive hassle.
Be patient and persistant. A friendly letter from one of your buddies should help as well.
RG
I would not give up on that. I have faced the same attitude at the BMW dealership here in town with my M5. I have tracked it only 3 times and was very reasonable, but when I went in for brakes or when the clutch went at 33K ( common pro with those E39 M5's) they wouldn't cover without an extensive hassle.
Be patient and persistant. A friendly letter from one of your buddies should help as well.
RG
#17
10-22-2006, 01:08 AM
This is so different than my dealer experience over at Boardwalk Porsche from several years ago. Maybe things are changing all the way through...and these changes are not good.
#20
10-22-2006, 09:08 AM
what i did with a new bmw .... told the zone rep that iwas going to take out a full pg ad with all the service records. and my demands and bmws resonces... two weeks later i had a new car.....
#22
10-22-2006, 09:44 AM
I'm not totally clear on this... Are they not covering the repair because of the previous over rev, or is it the track time you put on the car?
#23
10-22-2006, 10:20 AM
Same thing happened to me although it was not the dealers fault. I had a brand new car that was just a headache from day 1. The engine was replaced, the ECU was replaced etc and it still had the same issue. Eventually I got sick of the problems and sold it at a huge loss and bought the exact same car in a different color.
#24
10-22-2006, 10:20 AM
Your remedy will likely be with the selling dealer, not PCNA. If you read the PCNA warranty I believe you will see that it excludes failures resulting from abuse and track events. That said, the burden is on PCNA to support its assertion that the failure resulted from a cause disqualifying warranty coverage. If PCNA cannot do this it will be on the hook for the repairs. What you want to know is, specifically, what were the "signs of track abuse" PCNA found. Get that in writing. You will probably also need an expert to provide an opinion to refute PCNA's position.
Assuming PCNA can show the failure resulted from a cause excluded for warranty coverage, your next target is the dealer who sold you the car. You will want to be able to show that the dealer made representations to you that the warranty was in full force and effect. Under the Federal Trade Commission's used car rule, used cars sold by dealers must state whether the car is sold with a warranty or "as-is". Do you remember whether that sticker was on the car's window when you considered it for purchase? The FTC has a lot of info that might help you. See: http://search.ftc.gov/query.html?qt=used+car&submit=GO
Assuming the dealer was in compliance with the FTC used car rule, you should be in a pretty good position to argue that you are covered even if PCNA can show the car was tracked. (If the dealer was not in compliance with the FTC's rule you will have that as another, very strong, argument in your favor.) You bought the car relying on the dealer's representations the car was under warranty...you would not have bought it if the dealer had told you the car had been tracked or that it had no warranty.
Having a lawyer will increase you chances of success. To keep you own costs down, try to collect the necessary information before you see him/her: any documents about the car and warranty given to you; write down the statements that were made to you by the dealer, who made them and when, etc.
Good luck
Assuming PCNA can show the failure resulted from a cause excluded for warranty coverage, your next target is the dealer who sold you the car. You will want to be able to show that the dealer made representations to you that the warranty was in full force and effect. Under the Federal Trade Commission's used car rule, used cars sold by dealers must state whether the car is sold with a warranty or "as-is". Do you remember whether that sticker was on the car's window when you considered it for purchase? The FTC has a lot of info that might help you. See: http://search.ftc.gov/query.html?qt=used+car&submit=GO
Assuming the dealer was in compliance with the FTC used car rule, you should be in a pretty good position to argue that you are covered even if PCNA can show the car was tracked. (If the dealer was not in compliance with the FTC's rule you will have that as another, very strong, argument in your favor.) You bought the car relying on the dealer's representations the car was under warranty...you would not have bought it if the dealer had told you the car had been tracked or that it had no warranty.
Having a lawyer will increase you chances of success. To keep you own costs down, try to collect the necessary information before you see him/her: any documents about the car and warranty given to you; write down the statements that were made to you by the dealer, who made them and when, etc.
Good luck
#25
10-22-2006, 10:56 AM
lexpro: you sound like you know what you're talking about; but isn't the issue that the car had a warranty or not a mute point since they're claiming the damage resulted from track time, which voids the warranty ?
the way it appears is that porsche has taken the position that if your car breaks as a result of track time, then it's on the owner, not Porsche. kind of a sh!tty policy (especially in terms of the GT cars), but i don't think Porsche has ever been secretive about it. this issue (tranny's went) has already come up with at least two people i know and they both ended up eating the cost after PCNA denied their claims.
it would seem the only option now is prove that the failure was not a result of track time and that it was purely a defective part.
good luck with it.
the way it appears is that porsche has taken the position that if your car breaks as a result of track time, then it's on the owner, not Porsche. kind of a sh!tty policy (especially in terms of the GT cars), but i don't think Porsche has ever been secretive about it. this issue (tranny's went) has already come up with at least two people i know and they both ended up eating the cost after PCNA denied their claims.
it would seem the only option now is prove that the failure was not a result of track time and that it was purely a defective part.
good luck with it.
#26
10-22-2006, 12:12 PM
Dog:
As I understand it, Boyracer bought the car used. The dealer represented it had a warranty. The dealer has the responsibility of performing per the representations it made and that Boy relied on in making the purchase. It may well be that the PCNA warranty is void. The representation of the existance of a warranty was made by the dealer, however, not PCNA. If the dealer's representation was that the PCNA warranty is in force and that was not true, the dealer is apparently liable for damages to Boy: the cost of repairs that would have been covered had the warranty been in effect (as represented by the dealer), and the difference in value of a car with a PCNA warranty and one without it.
As I understand it, Boyracer bought the car used. The dealer represented it had a warranty. The dealer has the responsibility of performing per the representations it made and that Boy relied on in making the purchase. It may well be that the PCNA warranty is void. The representation of the existance of a warranty was made by the dealer, however, not PCNA. If the dealer's representation was that the PCNA warranty is in force and that was not true, the dealer is apparently liable for damages to Boy: the cost of repairs that would have been covered had the warranty been in effect (as represented by the dealer), and the difference in value of a car with a PCNA warranty and one without it.
#27
10-22-2006, 12:20 PM
Another thought: PCNA considers tracking a car to be so fundamental a change in the value of the car (in terms at least of the liklihood of failures requiring repairs) that it voids the warranty. Failure to disclose that a car was tracked and is without a factory warranty therefore may be a material misrepresentation of the condition of the car giving rise to other remedies such as recission (unwind the transaction) or potentially an action for fraud if the dealer knew or should have known of the misrepresentation. Things to be considered when talking to your lawyer...or the lawyer for the other side.
#28
10-22-2006, 12:42 PM
And just one more thought: Boy says the dealer said not to worry about certifying the car. Is this common? I would think certification is another revenue opportunity for the dealer, so why would they forego it. The dealer may have done this because he did, in fact, know that the car was not eligible for certification because of its history... otherwise wouldn't he offer to have it certified for the cost of the extended warranty?
Listen, be very persistent and don't let up, you will come out on top!
