The discussion thread on 1/4 mile E.T. and Trap Speed, and their relationship to HP
#16
10-21-2006, 03:11 PM
Originally Posted by Jean
I did not want to start a riot or nice people getting pissed at each other. I hardly know what each one here has as setup. I hope we are not confusing stock K16 turbos with hybrid K16 turbos.
Hardly is a trap speed for a single run proof of any HP with a certain car, especially if it has never been repeated.
I am not trying to say who is right or wrong, just take it FWIW. No trap speeds can prove otherwise, and if it does it means something else is happening, but not HP.
Hardly is a trap speed for a single run proof of any HP with a certain car, especially if it has never been repeated.
I am not trying to say who is right or wrong, just take it FWIW. No trap speeds can prove otherwise, and if it does it means something else is happening, but not HP.
Anyway, I have no absolutely no doubt that, for whatever reason, my car at the Stage 2 level was definitely making more than 500 crank HP. But I'm not saying that other Stage 2 cars are making the same power.
Last edited by Divexxtreme; 10-21-2006 at 05:07 PM.
#17
10-21-2006, 03:21 PM
Scott, I am not debating the trap speed, which I know is true of course, what I am saying is that either trap speed means little in relation to Hp and there is much more to it or if this trap speed means 600HP, your car was not on stock K16s, this is physics not dynos or trap speeds.
Do you have the slip for that run, I would like to look at the acceleration between your 330ft and quartermile. Please PM if you wish.
BTW, you can check it out with Todd if you would like.
Do you have the slip for that run, I would like to look at the acceleration between your 330ft and quartermile. Please PM if you wish.
BTW, you can check it out with Todd if you would like.
#18
10-21-2006, 03:27 PM
Originally Posted by Jean
Scott, I am not debating the trap speed, which I know is true of course, what I am saying is that either trap speed means little in relation to Hp and there is much more to it or if this trap speed means 600HP, your car was not on stock K16s, this is physics not dynos or trap speeds.
As far as my car not having K16's...I currently have my stock K16's that Todd removed from my car sitting in my garage. I was definitely on stock K16's.
Do you have the slip for that run, I would like to look at the acceleration between your 330ft and quartermile. Please PM if you wish.
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...0&d=1134432156
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ad.php?t=38522
Last edited by Divexxtreme; 10-21-2006 at 03:34 PM.
#19
10-21-2006, 03:34 PM
Basic Sponsor
Scott ran the car at 55 degrees I believe.... he had the v flow as well....
that was an incredible run.... guys will hybrid k16s and or stock k24s cant run 11.6 @126 mph... so what ever you did.. you did right...
from what I know scott is the only one that ran this time on stock K16s...
that was an incredible run.... guys will hybrid k16s and or stock k24s cant run 11.6 @126 mph... so what ever you did.. you did right...
from what I know scott is the only one that ran this time on stock K16s...
__________________
2001 996TT 3.6L and stock ECU
9.66 seconds @ 147.76 mph 1/4 mile click to view
160 mph @ 9.77 seconds in 1/4 mile click to view
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2001 996TT 3.6L and stock ECU
9.66 seconds @ 147.76 mph 1/4 mile click to view
160 mph @ 9.77 seconds in 1/4 mile click to view
50% OFF ON PORSCHE ECU TUNING BLACK FRIDAY SPECIAL
#20
10-21-2006, 03:36 PM
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Temp was 55 degrees in one of those runs. Not really an even comparison to most runs. I'll be the first to admit Scott has better than average talent at this...
Markski: I didn't even see your thread when I posted
I think it's definitely possible to make more power by turning up the boost in K16 and K24 applications. Someone posted 535 (?) RWHP numbers for a stage 4 car here a little while ago. You CAN boost a K24 to 1.35 BAR. The question is do you want to? Evenm K16s can hit 1.4 BAR if you disconnect the wastegate.
Markski: I didn't even see your thread when I posted
I think it's definitely possible to make more power by turning up the boost in K16 and K24 applications. Someone posted 535 (?) RWHP numbers for a stage 4 car here a little while ago. You CAN boost a K24 to 1.35 BAR. The question is do you want to? Evenm K16s can hit 1.4 BAR if you disconnect the wastegate.
Last edited by Turbo Fanatic; 10-21-2006 at 03:42 PM.
#21
10-21-2006, 03:36 PM
I don't disagree with trap speed and HP, it does need corrections for the launch, do you disagree with that?
I mean it is quite straightforward that if you cross the 60 feet mark at 65mph instead of 60mph, your trap speed will be higher, do you disagree? So two persons having the exact same car, one goes through the 60ft in 2.5 seconds and the other in 1.7 seconds...one traps at 120mph and the other 125mph, does it mean he has 100HP more??
If you agree with the numbers I posted on engine VE and turbo compressor sizes, there is no room for debate I would think? Todd builds your engines, you might want to double check with him. No need to take this personally.
I mean it is quite straightforward that if you cross the 60 feet mark at 65mph instead of 60mph, your trap speed will be higher, do you disagree? So two persons having the exact same car, one goes through the 60ft in 2.5 seconds and the other in 1.7 seconds...one traps at 120mph and the other 125mph, does it mean he has 100HP more??
If you agree with the numbers I posted on engine VE and turbo compressor sizes, there is no room for debate I would think? Todd builds your engines, you might want to double check with him. No need to take this personally.
#22
10-21-2006, 03:39 PM
Originally Posted by MARKSKI
Scott ran the car at 55 degrees I believe.... he had the v flow as well....
that was an incredible run.... guys will hybrid k16s and or stock k24s cant run 11.6 @126 mph... so what ever you did.. you did right...
from what I know scott is the only one that ran this time on stock K16s...
that was an incredible run.... guys will hybrid k16s and or stock k24s cant run 11.6 @126 mph... so what ever you did.. you did right...
from what I know scott is the only one that ran this time on stock K16s...
I'd post the vid again, but it's on my laptop in Bahrain. Not on my computer here in VA.
#23
10-21-2006, 03:43 PM
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I'm not doubting you beat a stage 1 X50 car. I'd love to see the vid anyhoo.
Do you think turbo lag was a factor in your race?
Do you think turbo lag was a factor in your race?
#24
10-21-2006, 03:45 PM
Originally Posted by Jean
I don't disagree with trap speed and HP, it does need corrections for the launch, do you disagree with that?
I mean it is quite straightforward that if you cross the 60 feet mark at 65mph instead of 60mph, your trap speed will be higher, do you disagree? So two persons having the exact same car, one goes through the 60ft in 2.5 seconds and the other in 1.7 seconds...one traps at 120mph and the other 125mph, does it mean he has 100HP more??
If you agree with the numbers I posted on engine VE and turbo compressor sizes, there is no room for debate I would think? Todd builds your engines, you might want to double check with him. No need to take this personally.
Last edited by Divexxtreme; 10-21-2006 at 03:52 PM.
#25
10-21-2006, 03:49 PM
Originally Posted by ari
I'm not doubting you beat a stage 1 X50 car. I'd love to see the vid anyhoo.
Do you think turbo lag was a factor in your race?
Do you think turbo lag was a factor in your race?
As far as lag, we raced long enough each race that if he were going to catch up, he would have. But that never happened. Plus...at speeds like that, his K24's were in their element....much more than my K16's were.
#26
10-21-2006, 03:54 PM
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I'd rather you just stay safe in the US. Forget my video.
It's important to state that stage 1 X50 is still running .8 bar boost and no ECU program. Your stage 2 is running 1 BAR and program right? That doesn't sound like a fair race to me. Maybe I'm not looking at it the right way?
It's important to state that stage 1 X50 is still running .8 bar boost and no ECU program. Your stage 2 is running 1 BAR and program right? That doesn't sound like a fair race to me. Maybe I'm not looking at it the right way?
#27
10-21-2006, 04:01 PM
Originally Posted by ari
I'd rather you just stay safe in the US. Forget my video.
It's important to state that stage 1 X50 is still running .8 bar boost and no ECU program. Your stage 2 is running 1 BAR and program right? That doesn't sound like a fair race to me. Maybe I'm not looking at it the right way?
It's important to state that stage 1 X50 is still running .8 bar boost and no ECU program. Your stage 2 is running 1 BAR and program right? That doesn't sound like a fair race to me. Maybe I'm not looking at it the right way?
I was actually surprised I beat him. I had raced him before he got the chip and just destroyed him (I posted that video as well). But I figured once he got his chip, we'd be about even, or he'd have the edge. He defitnely got faster than before...but not fast enough.
My only point in mentioning the X50 race in this thread, is because the X50 was making over 500 crank HP at the time (I would guess around 520-530), and I still pulled him. Meaning that my K16 car was making more HP than he was. Just like the trap speed shows it was.
Here's the link to X50/Cobra race thread...less the video. You can read the repsonses from people that were surprised I was faster the chipped X50 car:
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ad.php?t=40418
Last edited by Divexxtreme; 10-21-2006 at 04:05 PM.
#28
10-21-2006, 04:06 PM
Originally Posted by Divexxtreme
E.T., yes. Trap speed, no. It's nor really dependant on launch like you'd think. That's why cars with stock tires will routinely trap the same as they do on drag radials or slicks...even though their E.T. is is greatly reduced by the stickier tires.
For me when the same car covers in the first run a distance of 60 feet at 60mph and then in run number 2 it covers the same distance at 65 mph, the end speed will certainly be faster in run two, unless in the balance of the 1280 feet distance something goes wrong with the car
I was talking to myself, saying not to take it personally, sorry about that
Pheww, just noticed how OT this went, apologies and I think we need to drop it here and take it to another thread.. My only point was about the K16 potential.
Last edited by Jean; 10-21-2006 at 04:11 PM.
#29
10-21-2006, 04:18 PM
Originally Posted by Jean
Not trying to be difficult here, but I don't understand the motion dynamics to be honest.
For me when the same car covers in the first run a distance of 60 feet at 60mph and then in run number 2 it covers the same distance at 65 mph, the end speed will certainly be faster in run two, unless in the balance of the 1280 feet distance something goes wrong with the car
For me when the same car covers in the first run a distance of 60 feet at 60mph and then in run number 2 it covers the same distance at 65 mph, the end speed will certainly be faster in run two, unless in the balance of the 1280 feet distance something goes wrong with the car
Here is a link to the timeslips of (3) 10 second runs I made with my car. You'll notice that the run with the highest trap speed (136) was also the run with the slowest E.T and slowest 60' time (10.86 & 1.85, repectively). I actually spun my tires and got wheelhop on that run, which is why I lost 2/10's of a second and had a slower 60' time.
Also look at the 1/8th mile mph. I only had 103 mph at the 1/8th on that run compared to 107 and 108 mph in the other two. But I still trapped the fastest mph on that run.
That's what I mean when I say that trap speed isn't really dependant on launch or even the 1/8th mile E.T/trap that much. It's relies on pure wheel HP once you reach the end of the 1/4, and nothing else.
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...0&d=1142120077
Last edited by Divexxtreme; 10-21-2006 at 04:22 PM.
#30
10-21-2006, 04:25 PM
Originally Posted by iLLM3
Send me a racelogix box and i will do all of the tests you want, i have nothing to hide and have SEVERAL speedo videos even before going RWD and a few other mods, still pulling 60-130 in 10.x seconds WITHOUT a flying start! 40-100 is 5 sec flat, w/e you want man. Go on viperclub.com into the Northeast section, all of my buddies are on there with supercharged viper's that run high 10's low 11's, guess what, one one of them beat me and that was when i was awd by a cl to 165, that's it. He puts down 738rwhp, i believe K16's with a proper setup, tuning or maybe just a freaky mix and match will produce crazy power from K16's, and several people have proved it.
Just because its our of the norm, doesnt mean you have to doubt it, talk down upon it and say its impossible. Because out of all people, you know some cars/drivers are different then others! AND OUT OF ALL PEOPLE, you know that just because you have K24's and some bolt ons doesnt mean its automatically BETTER then K16's or another rock solid setup, dont kid yourself!
If i wanted to i would go 1000hp right now, but that isnt the point. I have been extremely satisfied with this setup and its FAST (not enough but enought o enjoy it on every drive)
There are also several members on this board who can attest to my performance, guys with stg 3 GT2's, M5's and so on!
Just because its our of the norm, doesnt mean you have to doubt it, talk down upon it and say its impossible. Because out of all people, you know some cars/drivers are different then others! AND OUT OF ALL PEOPLE, you know that just because you have K24's and some bolt ons doesnt mean its automatically BETTER then K16's or another rock solid setup, dont kid yourself!
If i wanted to i would go 1000hp right now, but that isnt the point. I have been extremely satisfied with this setup and its FAST (not enough but enought o enjoy it on every drive)
There are also several members on this board who can attest to my performance, guys with stg 3 GT2's, M5's and so on!
Last edited by KPG; 10-21-2006 at 04:55 PM.