??

You're not an attorney are you?

 

I don't think the GIAC-tuned cars are running just 1.1 bar especially at 600HP or higher levels...I thought I saw a post here a few weeks ago that indicated some were running as high as 1.5 bar (I think it was GT640 or GT700 cars) - a level that I wouldn't want to be running on pump gas with stock internals. Perhaps that was a high-octane 'race' program, but that meant having to re-flash to a different program (which also have to be purchased separately, I believe).

Wouldn't it make sense to just have that be a controllable option included in the original ECU flash purchase? What else is different between the different programs except for boost levels?

I read something about a Revo program that has adjustable settings also and I'm trying to get more info on that.

 

Im sorry thats not what I meant....
I have an evo8 that runs on differnt boost settings along with my TT but thats being currently finished up and I can't really use it as an example... but the theory will be the same...
YOu tune each boost setting for the appropriate fuel octane... thus a car running only 20 psi on both 93 and 100 octane will never see the gains that I will because my car is tuned for the higher boost/octane level.
so while u are still at 20 psi... u really do not gain the numbers....
here is what I did when we tuned the car on a AWD dynojet .
391 awhp @20 psi
456 awhp@25 psi
565 awhp @30 psi
617 awhp @35 psi
640 awhp @40 psi

I used different fuels for each run...
and to prove my point... check the wheel HP gains some tuners offer with the 100 octane map vs pump... the ratio in HP gains is no where near what I just achieved... why? because they are still at 1.2 bars or less running 100 octane.. just like on pump gas. Granted they adjust timing not to detonate... among other things...
this is my opinion only- I may be way off on this one...?

 

Does the GT700 require 100 octane all of the time?

Do cars with selectable race programs generate more boost (relative to the boost generated with the street program) when these race programs are in use?

 

No it does not, I think it gets more HP on higher octane fuel.

The 2nd question, I will defer to more knowledgeable people .

 

to answer ur second question- no.
that is absolutely a mechanical procedure done via vacuum. thats why, for example, evoms is now selling upgraded wastegate springs... 1 bar springs vs. 6 psi bars springs that come standard...
and thats where the "controllable" boost feature comes handy.... its actually controlling the wastegates via vacuum..( pressure).

 

So the entire power increase value is accomplished just through adjusting the timing to take advantage of the higher (100) octane?

Why isn't a higher boost format written into the "race" program? For example, a 1.1 bar 93 octane program, with the selectable race/100 octane program having different timing and higher boost...a "boost controller" but one that is selectable through the key fob controller? Or is that what you mean by a controllable boost feature?

 

Dock,
"controllable" is meant using a third party electric boost controller(EBC).
My whole point is that most P car tuners simply keep a static boost setting( whatever the wastegates are set up to)... then make program maps for different fuels... From what I understand they use MAF sensing...

The other way to do it.. like my evo and P car... is to do (MAP)pressure sensing where the ecu does not know what FUEL ur running rather then what BOOST ur running... and thats how 99% of stand alone ecus work... AEM, Autroniks, Motec, etc...
By ridding yourself Mass Flow Sensor, this leaves you unrestricted in intake manifold design, and allows calibration on turbocharged engines to compensate for any boost condition.
BTW, Im no tuner nor an expert.. IM just repeating stuff/emails and or conversations I have had with a body of tuners including my current one...

 

Marski being modest...He 1 of the most knowlegable guys on 6speed and as far as I'm concerned very unbiased. The 1 thing with him is that he's done most of the setups so he knows from experiance....anyway in my conversations with him he's never given me a bad piece of advice...
JB

 

As usual Markski is spot on. Here is my dyno runs at 1.1 bar. Right around 500-510 RWHP on 91 octane. As you can see, the A/F ratio is spot on with the GIAC K24 software. There is plenty of leeway for adding hybrid turbos etc.. with most software.

I'm now running 1.2 BAR but have yet to dyno.

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/...o/Dyno%20Runs/

To add to what Markski is saying. It seems that the software has little to do with control of boost. Crank the wastegates and get more boost (especially with modified wastegate springs).

 

Exactly what i was going to post, his knowledge never cease's to amaze me! Great info in this thread

 

Great input again...

So if I pick up Kevin's ZC hybrid turbos I should be running them on 1.1 bars if I'm on 91 octance and 1.2-1.3 bars when on 100 octane? I know that I will have make me a 100 octane program, thats for sure. Besides the FPR, I will also be picking up a Greddy or HKS manual boost controller to better dial in the boost and adjust it.

 

Doesn't the specific program need to account for the outboard electronic boost controller, i.e. just adding a boost controller to a GIAC-based program won't work, will it?

 

Kevin, to clarify, you control the boost through the program and use a flash-loader to switch between the different programs?

What do you believe are the advantages to this approach vs the external boost controller? How about the disadvantages? Just trying to get an objective view of the different approaches.

 

Thanks for the response on disadvantages of an external boost controller- but now I'm curious on whether there are any advantages to an external boost controller?

If it's truly unnecessary, then why do some tuners use them? I thought that having the EBC allowed a different way to create the maps.