oh yesssss!!

 

To make this even more confusing...when I had my dyno done on the Dyno-Dynamics dyno, they hooked up their shop's calibrated boost guage...and according to it, I was only hitting 1.2 BAR at 65% on my Boost Controller (high boost)...even though my OEM boost gauge was reading 1.3.

I never ran the car with higher than 65% on the Boost Controller...on the street, at the track, or on the Dyno-Jet where I made 600 rwhp...so to be perfectly honest, I may have actually ran my 10.6 @ 136 at only 1.2 BAR...since 65% is what I used for boost on the dragstrip.

It depends which boost gauge you believe to be more accurate.

 

I checked my Greddy and noticed that the high peak boost was 1.46 bars and not 1.5 bars... it stays in the memory.... and that's what Todd did on the dyno too...
Markski

 

While its true that I used to run more boost, that was not by design. In fact, EVOMS was surpised when I advised them of how much boost I was running (they did not originally install the turbos or program), and they warned me that the set-up was not designed or intended to run the boost that I was running. I retained the higher boost in spite of EVOMS' warnings (not because that was intended or designed by EVOMS). In other words, I was the exception, not the rule. EVOMS intended for me to run lower boost.

Sharky was also running more than 1.5 bar, but again, he was using a one-off program that was not marketed by EVOMS. Today, Sharky is back at 1.5 bar.

I am not aware of GT700s running more than 1.5 bar as a matter of course. Then again, I have never owned a GT700, so I have no personal knowledge. I thought GT700s were designed for 1.4 bar. I have heard of a couple of GT700 owners who have cranked up the boost beyond the standard parameters of the package. Again, that is the exception, not the rule.

It is easy enough for someone to adjust the wastegates and run more boost than intended or designed by EVOMS. That does not mean that EVOMS is promoting high boost applications. As I stated in my prior post, EVOMS has consistently discouraged me from running high boost (even when I wanted to).

Craig

 

Craig,

I believe Markski is referring to the below thread, where a GT700 owner installed defi-gauges on his car that showed he was hitting 1.6 BAR on pump gas, and 1.8 BAR on race gas....and he had made no adustments to boost levels on his own. Other GT700 owners responded saying that the defi-gauges were accurate, and that his car was boosting right where it should be.

Apparently (as stated in the thread), EVOMS installs a Zenar Diode which tricks the ECU into allowing higher boost. The only problem is, it causes the OEM gauge to read innacurately low...even when the car is boosting much higher than what the OEM gauge says it is.

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...hlight=1.3+bar

 

That is the thread I was referring too.... I don't know.. I just asked... does not mean that Evoms is promoting high boost either... but then it does not mean they don't do it differently either...
I run 20 psi on low boost and up to 45 psi on high in my Evo 8... and thats on a gt35r turbo with a built motor as well. no problems.... thing flies...

 

Craig,

I define a high boost motor opposed to a lower boost motor this way. Take Markski's and VR's. One produces let's say for the sake of discussion 700 hp at 1.1 bar while the other produces 780 hp at 1.2 bar. At the present time one motor is more efficient than the other. Then again, reading into Todd Knighten's commets one has better mid range power while the other has better high range power. Like Todd said, he builds what the customer wants and all customers are different. I believe the efficiency derives from the head work and the cams, I could be wrong.

I believe people believe EVOMS for the most part makes about equal or a little less power but requires more boost for the same power. It all comes down to choices. What do you want to use your car for and how much do you want to spend. I believe the two companies, for the most part, cater to different markets.

My car is made up of parts from both companies (along with others). I kinda picked and choose what part were best for my application. I am very happy they are both around.

 

i totally agreed with Craig, that,s over kill engine unless internal work been done

 

Just to add some input. My car when it was a GT700 was running a sustained 1.3 bar with spikes of 1.4.When the car ran 10.8 at 134.71 it was full weight and didn't have a drop of race fuel in it.I believe if it had more than 1.4 bar of boost in it I would have had some detonation at some point during the 1 1/2 years I had the kit in the car.Just as a side note I never messed with the waste gates from when the kit was delivered.

 

Actually DMK and myself run on stock internals.

as a side note, the majority of the top 10 cars ran in AZ where atmospheric conditions are a large handicap for ET and trapspeed.

 

I recall at the European Car shootout in '03 that Buddy's car was runnng around 1.6bar and made about 560hp to the tires on a Mustang dyno, while Hamann7's car (protomotive tuned) was running 1.2 bar and produced about 530awhp, but the interesting part was we made nearly 70% more power under the curve than Buddy's car and 30lbs/ft more torque. Even more interesting was we were both running St3/t04E46 turbo's on both cars...
I also recall Sharky being excited about revising his intercooler endtanks and getting another couple of psi out of his car, up to about 31-32psi!!! Now that's just nuts!

With any given turbo, the turbine will define how much boost it will take to produce any given power level (up to the limit of the compressor) due to the backpressure of the turbine. A k16/24 can make right around 600hp, but it takes about 1.5 bar to get there. A generic K24 can do it with around 1.3 bar, where a K24/18G can get there with about 1.15 bar with stock air intake or only .95 bar with our revised intake system. Then again, a GT35R can hit that same 600hp at only .6 bar!!!!

Now, the cars are very different. And thus there are many different car mfr's in the world for that reason. I'm sure everyone doesn't enjoy the same underwear either ;p So, these are the choices we ask when we're putting together a system for someone... Do they like the low speed torquey American car feel??? Or are they into midrange, or higher rpm? You can build to suit. None is right or wrong, just different. The GT35R at 600hp will drive like a NA car due to the low torque made at only .6 bar, where the k16/24 will make a ton of torque with the same hp and have a very short little bump of torque/power across the rpm band and require very tight gearing to be utilized properly. Kinda like a Viper vs. a Ferrari...

As for the lwf stuff and lightened internals... The 1/4 mile guys may want to retain the heavy stock flywheel as it gives a much easier launch, and combined with powershifts to minimize the necessary rpm range the engine has to go through, it can work as a great benefit in 1/4miling.
For track use, I think that's primarily where the lwf reaps it's most benefit, where you're consitently utilizing a large rpm range and requiring rapid accel/decel around the track... It's worth a second or so around some tracks.
For street use, they're kind of annoying, but you have to admit that they sound really cool when you can sit in the parking lot and have your engine rev very quickly... It'd be really embarrasing like the little Honda's to have an engine that would take 5 seconds to do a 0-6000 rpm run in the parking lot without moving... Those things have monstrous flywheels on them!
In the low gears, they're the most advantageous where the engine is required to go through a large rev range in a short amount of time. In higher gears they're not helping much.

I think I've gotten all the questions???

 

Todd - I would be interested on your thoughts relating to head work on a 700 HP car using GT28's.

Thanks!

 

Markski and VR both use GT35 turbos. GT35 turbos will produce more HP than GT30 turbos at the same boost level (or the same HP with less boost), hence the significantly increased efficiency. This is why I previously opined that comparing GT35 cars with GT30 cars is somewhat misleading, as they will inherently have different boost/HP/efficiency characteristics.

That being said, I am the least knowledgeable of anyone posting in this thread, so take my naive comments for what they are (and are not).

Craig

 

I vagely recall that Buddy was using some prototype kit at the shootout that was created by his local tuner (I will not mention by name), that never worked quite right and he ultimately abandoned it for a GT700 set-up.

As you stated, the most impressive thing about Hamann's shootout car was your ability to generate power under the curve with those turbos!!!! A credit to your tuning.

Sharky should not be a part of this discusssion, as the huge amount of boost he previously ran was not typical or reflective of EVOMS' tuning philosphy.

This is the point I tried to make in my last post, albeit unscientifically.

Craig

 

That is what I thought GT700s were intended to run boost wise.

Craig