Trap Speed is the primary unit of comparison, not E.T. Drag Radials will help E.T., but so does an AWD car on street tires. Trap Speed will be pretty much the same regardless of what tire you use, or if you are RWD or AWD.

Many of the cars on that list were running on crappy tracks, in hot and humid weather conditions which slowed them down as well.

As far as reliability, we just don't have any place in the US where we can run 200 MPH all day. Do I think the cars could handle it? Absolutely. I do not think RUF cools there cars any better or uses better materials when they build their engines. But there's really no way to prove it without taking an US tuned car to Germany and running the Autobahn for a few months.


Believe me, Adam....I have much respect for RUF cars. MUCH respect. But they do not deny physics, and they are no faster in any situation than other cars of the same weight, HP and TQ.

 

Negative. Most are running street tires. With the exact same tires, the RT-12 will have no better traction than any other Porsche TT in that list.

 

Here...to remove traction from equation entirely, I'll post the list in order of Trap Speed. Remember...Trap Speed is derived from power and weight. As you can see from the below list, many of the cars that have high Trap Speeds have relatively poor E.T's, thus showing what these cars are capable of doing from a roll....when traction is not an issue.

11.09 @ 140.0 - EVOMS 800+ HP TT (AWD at time of run)
11.10 @ 138.1 - DMK / EVOMS 800 HP TT (RWD)
10.59 @ 137.6 - Joetwint / EVOMS 800 HP TT (AWD)
10.76 @ 136.5 - Sharky / Sharkwerks 800 HP TT (AWD)
10.86 @ 136.0 - Divexxtreme / Protomotive 675 HP TT (RWD)
10.88 @ 134.7 - Joetwint / EVOMS 700 HP TT (AWD)
11.32 @ 134.3 - RennTechV12 / EVOMS 700HP TT (AWD)
10.98 @ 134.0 - Cgmeredithjr / Imagine Auto 700 HP GT2
11.0x @ 133.9 - RUF RT-12 650 HP TT (RWD)
11.01 @ 133.8 - Excellence Magazine / EVOMS 700HP TT (AWD)
10.92 @ 133.7 - RenntechV12 / EVOMS 700 HP GT2
11.36 @ 132.0 - BuddyG / Stage 5 650 HP TT (AWD)
10.74 @ 131.7 - Hamann7 / Protomotive 675 HP TT (AWD)
11.21 @ 131.1 - VRAlexander / S Car Go 650 HP TT (AWD)
11.1x @ 130.1 - Roock RST 650 HP TT (AWD)

 

This has been discussed xx times before.

Below is a picture I took from when Road & Track drove the car.

As you can see this is an unusued piece of road, far from perfect conditions.
And the tires are normal Pirelli street tires.

The car is 100% the same as if you would use it to commute to work.

The car was RWD in this case, but the time above is an AWD time.
However the 0-200 km/h times are similar, but the RWD seems to be even faster.

0-200 km/h
Rt12 RWD (R&T) 9,7 s
Rt12 AWD (Autobild) 9,85 s




I have made a really nice pdf for you, for comparison, but it seems the database is having some issues.

 

Erik - According to the magazine that tested it, the time is I have listed is a RWD time. I made sure to carefully check this before I listed it as RWD.

Again...great car and very fast...but no faster than most of the 650-700 HP cars on this forum.

I think some of you believe I'm underestimating the RT-12. I'm not. What I think is actually happening is that you RUF owners are underestimating some of the cars on this forum.

 

Really? Is there any way to tell which cars did and not for someone who does not have inside info?
I've been thru a few of the fast cars on the list and I find no info at all about what tires they used.

But they seem to have on thing in common, they all run on dragstrips, not roads. (which is understandeable, but I would certainly prefer to run on a dragstrip with trackbite than on a public road if I was to set a low time. Regardless wether I had RWD or AWD.)

Well, at least the Rt12 is the fastest 650 hp car on the list

Under known conditions.

 

Just to clarify.

R&T drove a RWD car, but never up to 300 km/h. (well actually they drove 349,x km/h / 217 mph before they ran out of Autobahn, but acceleration wasn't measured then).

That car is in the official list here: https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ad.php?t=55163

AutoBild drove an AWD. That is the car in the first post in this thread.

ManufacturerRUF RUF ModelRt 12 2WDRt 12 4WDTested byR & TAuto BildPower650 PS650 PS
0 - 100 km/h3,3 s3,47 s
0 - 150 km/h
0 - 160 km/h6,75 s
0 - 200 km/h9,7 s 9,85 s
0 - 250 km/h15,44 s
0 - 280 km/h
0 - 300 km/h 24,86 s

0 - 402 m11,0 s11,15 s0 - 1000 m19,75 s

'
EDIT: Sorry my graph didn't come out as expected. I wish I can post my pdf soon.

I understand that AutoBild drove on an old airfield, with less than perfect conditions. Can someone confirm?

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erik

Really? Is there any way to tell which cars did and not for someone who does not have inside info?
I've been thru a few of the fast cars on the list and I find no info at all about what tires they used.

Most of the info was taken from the original posts. If we only had a E.T. list, than I would take the time to list all of the tires that were used. But since I list it in order of Trap Speed (which won't change much regardless of what tires are used), I don’t bother.

Again, the Trap Speed list is what really matters here. And the type of tires do not have a measurable effect.

Quote:

But they seem to have on thing in common, they all run on dragstrips, not roads (which is understandeable, but I would certainly prefer to run on a dragstrip with trackbite than on a public road if I was to set a low time. Regardless wether I had RWD or AWD.)

Again...when comparing Trap Speeds...the trackbite isn't an issue. Porsches hook extremely well. Even with RWD on street tires, they get much better traction than other cars.

Quote:

Well, at least the RT12 is the fastest 650 hp car on the list. Under known conditions.

I wouldn't say the conditions are "known". For all we know, the test area that the RT-12 used could have been shorter than a official dragstrip. But I'm giving the car the benefit of the doubt.

And yes...it is the fastest the car on the list for having 650 HP. But my car with only 25 HP more sure walloped it.
The cars that

 

Oh okay...I thought you were talking about the car listed in my 1/4 mile list being AWD. I understand what you mean now. My mistake.

 

Adam, Erik,

I have a way we can settle this pretty quickly. Use a AX-22 or Driftbox and get some 96.5 kph to 209.2 kph (60-130 mph) runs in a RT-12. We have a decent number of cars in our list with officially verified times that we can use to directly compare your times to (with many more times/cars to come, including mine).

Jean can verify AX-22 runs, and KPG can verify Driftbox runs. Traction will be completely removed from the equation since the cars will be moving from a roll.

This should be fun.

60 -130 mph (96.5-209.2 kph):

5.9x - VRAlexander / Protomotive 1,000+ HP TT (AWD @ 1.3 BAR) / AX-22
6.15 - DMK / EVOMS 800+ HP TT (RWD) / Driftbox
6.6x - Marski / Protomotive 1,000 HP TT (RWD @ .86 BAR) / Driftbox
6.6x - Jean / Protomotive 3.8L 993 TT (RWD) / AX-22
7.93 - KPG / Ultimate MotorWerks 640 HP TT (AWD) / Driftbox
8.10 - 9Eleven / Orton 530 HP GT2 / Driftbox
8.76 - Scotty slc / Techart 510 + EVO V-Flow (AWD) / Driftbox
9.10 - Bill S / 993 Ruf R Turbo 490 HP / AX-22
9.56 - Topgun / X50 TT with Revo software (AWD) / Driftbox
10.96 - Woodster / Orton ECU & exhaust TT (AWD) / AX-22

 

RUF Sweden will be happy to add a car to the list. Hopefully a 996TT with RUF 650 hp kit. But it will take until the summer I'm afraid.
It's winter here and the car isn't moving for a while.

 

No problem. I'll add it whenever you get a chance to run it.

 

For comparison's sake, here's a run from the 750 HP Gemballa GT750R 996 GT2 that Sport Auto tested back in May of 2002. The numbers are pretty awesome. It was using Garrett turbos at 1.4 BAR and the rear tires were 315 Yokohama AVS sports.

You can tell from the 0-100 km/h time that it didn't get nearly as good of a launch as the RT-12 did, but once it got rolling...it was MUCH faster.

km/h........Gemballa GT750R
0-100....... 4.1
0-200....... 9.4
0-300....... 21.7

 

as soon as I have our car, i'll be happy to test it. I have a VBox Mini, and can send the data files over to KPG or whomever wants to see them.

I won't be able to do this for at least another month or so though.

also, I suggest Leon get some runs in. the fuel we have here in my country is little better than mule ****. its LISTED on the pump as 95 octane, but a good friend of mine is in the business, and said that when compared to fuel in Europe or the states, our gas would probably struggle to get rated 91 octane, IIRC.

a lot of guys will regularly fill up with aviation fuel when going to the track, to get the most out of their motors. of course, that f*cks up the cats over time...

 

Thanks Hesperus, looking forward to it. I won't be able to get times until I get my car back in March, and Marksi probably won't have dry weather until then.

Anyway, it's all in good fun.