UMW Stage 3A Zero Clearance Breaks New Ground: Dyno Sheet
#241
Originally Posted by Craig
there unfortunately continues to be an insatiable desire for certain individuals to prove that their particular tuner/package is superior to certain other tuners/packages.
Craig
Craig
#242
Originally Posted by cjv
Kevin,
I recently spoke with Kevin and asked if he could build me one of his turbo's that would handle 3000 to 9200 rpm range. His answer was nothing available at this time and he had a full plate on the table so would be unable at this time to R&D and prototype one. Check back next winter.
Currently, I believe his issue isn't the lower end, it is the upper end. These big valve cylinders are flowing 330 to 360 cfm @ 25 psi. In our case the displacement has an even larger air appetite.
I recently spoke with Kevin and asked if he could build me one of his turbo's that would handle 3000 to 9200 rpm range. His answer was nothing available at this time and he had a full plate on the table so would be unable at this time to R&D and prototype one. Check back next winter.
Currently, I believe his issue isn't the lower end, it is the upper end. These big valve cylinders are flowing 330 to 360 cfm @ 25 psi. In our case the displacement has an even larger air appetite.
#243
As an innocent bystander (yeah right). I think Craig has a point, although maybe not as diplomatic as he could be. The point being there is certainly no reason to make any derogatory, inflamatory, prejudicial, etc. remarks about anybody elses car or tuning package (or tuner)...this of course is difficult and I know for a fact that Kevin (KPG) never intended/intends to do this. The unfortunate reality is that communication is quite difficult (esp. via the net) and someone's intentions are not always obvious. I love reading about what you insane modders are doing and know you guys are quite competitive. There is no way to trully compare some of your beasts (just too many uncontrolled variables, too small a sample size and poor measurement systems). I'll stop rambling and sit back and learn what I can from all of you leading edge performance mod gurus. I'll do it without worrying about who is fastest!
#244
Originally Posted by KPG
Craig, with all due respect. I will take that as a not so subtle swipe. To you I say this. I post numbers, whether it is a the dragstrip , gps or dyno and make no excuses like I have misfiring plugs. I go out with my package and post the numbers and back them up...please do the same before being critical of me. I have yet to see you question any of you fellow EVO friends who make things quite personal at times with THEIR insatiable desire to promote their package. Just look at the recent thread Chad started and had to delete. I have never been personal with anyone on this board and kept to the facts. Please do the same...with all due respect. Kevin
I was most certainly NOT taking a swipe at you or UMW. I have only respect for you and UMW, and your enthusiasm for UMW is great! Had this thread remained a discussion of UMW’s new packages and impressive numbers, I would not have commented as I did, and I would have posted my congratulations much earlier. However, this thread quickly went beyond UMW’s product and numbers, and evolved into swiping of other tuners, EVOMS in particular. Read back through this thread and take note of the numerous unnecessary swipes that have NOTHING to do with UMW’s new product. It is one thing to to be proud of your own car/tuner and its performance. It is an entirely different thing to swipe others. I OFTEN post positive comments about other tuners. Others here are more comfortable posting negative comments about others. I did not read the prior thread that you made reference to but, based upon what I heard after the fact, it went out of control, and I do not condone improper postings from EVOMS’ customers any more than I do from other posters. FWIW, I have been critical of postings from other EVOMS customers, and I apply the same level of scrutiny to them.
Regarding your disparaging comment about my misfiring spark plugs, the facts are the facts. During my 6.68 60-130 run, my engine light was flashing and, when I later checked my codes, it showed that my spark plugs were misfiring MULTIPLE times (that is what a flashing check engine light often reflects) . The impact on performance was noticeable. This is not an excuse, but rather, a confirmed fact. Fowled plugs are inevitable in highly tuned 996TTs. You too will encounter this problem at some point, and the corresponding decrease in performance. My plugs are scheduled to be replaced next week. Consistent with my high regard for several different tuners, beyond EVOMS, I sought input from many, including Protomotive, regarding what plugs to use.
Again, congratulations to you and UMW!!!
Craig
#246
Originally Posted by Jean
Kevin (KPG)
Check out those traction graphs I sent you, you don't need more HP and certainly less than 50% of that torque downlow (although chassis dynos rule! ), I would not even touch the heads.. Or you will need much more in the gearing, transmission, and suspension department to take advantage of 10% of the incremental power you will be getting from pushing the envelop beyond your current (pre-madness) setup. Save some of the money and get a well planted car.
Sorry Kevin (@UMW)
Cheers
Check out those traction graphs I sent you, you don't need more HP and certainly less than 50% of that torque downlow (although chassis dynos rule! ), I would not even touch the heads.. Or you will need much more in the gearing, transmission, and suspension department to take advantage of 10% of the incremental power you will be getting from pushing the envelop beyond your current (pre-madness) setup. Save some of the money and get a well planted car.
Sorry Kevin (@UMW)
Cheers
My friend, Topgun, has been suffering from a case of "modism"...actually, he's been afflicted with the disease for many years...but this time it's different. It's much worse. I wanted to come by and see what was up... now I know why... Some great numbers being discussed, but I'm a little confused...perhaps someone can help clear this up for me:
All the motor parts are being upgraded, but no intercoolers???? So a 400fwhp car is bumped to 800fwhp and the intercoolers are left alone? Has anyone logged IATs? I'm sure Porsche designed some headroom into the intercoolers, but no way on a double. I really wonder what the IATs are after a full pull, or two, or seven??...or after 20 mins at a roadcourse???
It seems to me that intercoolers would be a "required" addition to any stage that would double the hp of an engine. And if no intercoolers are addressed, why are there no water/meth injection systems used?
I'm excited to see how Tom's car comes out.
Be good,
TomK
#248
Originally Posted by ace996
There is some real truth within that post. Too many times the car is made "too" powerful, for even good drivers to handle well, while the driver is still stuck being "slow". And one should not be proud at the frequency that PSM is being used.
My friend, Topgun, has been suffering from a case of "modism"...actually, he's been afflicted with the disease for many years...but this time it's different. It's much worse. I wanted to come by and see what was up... now I know why... Some great numbers being discussed, but I'm a little confused...perhaps someone can help clear this up for me:
All the motor parts are being upgraded, but no intercoolers???? So a 400fwhp car is bumped to 800fwhp and the intercoolers are left alone? Has anyone logged IATs? I'm sure Porsche designed some headroom into the intercoolers, but no way on a double. I really wonder what the IATs are after a full pull, or two, or seven??...or after 20 mins at a roadcourse???
It seems to me that intercoolers would be a "required" addition to any stage that would double the hp of an engine. And if no intercoolers are addressed, why are there no water/meth injection systems used?
I'm excited to see how Tom's car comes out.
Be good,
TomK
My friend, Topgun, has been suffering from a case of "modism"...actually, he's been afflicted with the disease for many years...but this time it's different. It's much worse. I wanted to come by and see what was up... now I know why... Some great numbers being discussed, but I'm a little confused...perhaps someone can help clear this up for me:
All the motor parts are being upgraded, but no intercoolers???? So a 400fwhp car is bumped to 800fwhp and the intercoolers are left alone? Has anyone logged IATs? I'm sure Porsche designed some headroom into the intercoolers, but no way on a double. I really wonder what the IATs are after a full pull, or two, or seven??...or after 20 mins at a roadcourse???
It seems to me that intercoolers would be a "required" addition to any stage that would double the hp of an engine. And if no intercoolers are addressed, why are there no water/meth injection systems used?
I'm excited to see how Tom's car comes out.
Be good,
TomK
#249
Markski is getting special shafts and hubs from Protomotive.
He is going one step further than what was on VRAlex's car (I believe).
It has to do with strengthening where the axles attach to the hubs in
addition to new axles.
I believe and he is preparing for more than a few "Hard Launches"
MK
He is going one step further than what was on VRAlex's car (I believe).
It has to do with strengthening where the axles attach to the hubs in
addition to new axles.
I believe and he is preparing for more than a few "Hard Launches"
MK
#251
Originally Posted by KPG
Alex...Uh...Umm...In case you haven't figured it out...I just spent your Moton money...Hey there is always next winter's project. Ooops, sorry that is stg4..well , how about winter of '09, can you put me on the schedule? Kevin
#252
Originally Posted by ace996
All the motor parts are being upgraded, but no intercoolers????
I
#253
Originally Posted by cjv
I see no advantage to water/meth systems unless you have lousy fuel.
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/info/docum...rinjection.htm
KPG,
Tom has told me about the intercoolers that are in the works, I'm just concerned for him when our track-season starts. I've tried to have him use water/meth injection, but it doesn't seem a popular addition to the P-cars. Intercoolers or W/I...I can't imagine pushing 200% the factory's power levels without adding one or the other.
I'm excited for you guys, can't wait to see the results...but I'm guessing that by the time you're both ready to put them back on the road, they'll be ready for the stage 5A/B/C kit.....(just kidding).
Be good,
TomK
Last edited by ace996; 01-21-2007 at 08:25 PM.
#254
Originally Posted by ace996
Lousy fuel? There are many reasons. If you'd like, give this a read and then you may see the advantages that were used by F1 (then outlawed) and every WRC car for the past several years.
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/info/docum...rinjection.htm
KPG,
Tom has told me about the intercoolers that are in the works, I'm just concerned for him when our track-season starts. I've tried to have him use water/meth injection, but it doesn't seem a popular addition to the P-cars. Intercoolers or W/I...I can't imagine pushing 200% the factory's power levels without adding one or the other.
I'm excited for you guys, can't wait to see the results...but I'm guessing that by the time you're both ready to put them back on the road, they'll be ready for the stage 5A/B/C kit.....(just kidding).
Be good,
TomK
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/info/docum...rinjection.htm
KPG,
Tom has told me about the intercoolers that are in the works, I'm just concerned for him when our track-season starts. I've tried to have him use water/meth injection, but it doesn't seem a popular addition to the P-cars. Intercoolers or W/I...I can't imagine pushing 200% the factory's power levels without adding one or the other.
I'm excited for you guys, can't wait to see the results...but I'm guessing that by the time you're both ready to put them back on the road, they'll be ready for the stage 5A/B/C kit.....(just kidding).
Be good,
TomK
#255
Originally Posted by Craig
IMHO, people should be spending less time endeavoring to prove the superiority of their particular tuner with irrelevant number comparisons, derived under very different conditions, and instead, spend more time enjoying their particular car. If you have the opportunity to line up with another 996TT tuned by someone else, compare away. Otherwise, it serves little benefit to compare the multitude of numbers generated by different cars, under different conditions, on different days, in different climates, on different dynos, on different tracks, etc etc etc. There are far too many variables for these discussions to be meaningful. There is a reason why Kevin, of UMW, does not go online comparing numbers. He knows better. These cars are meant to be driven, not bench raced over the internet.Craig