I'm looking at an '02 TT with 31k miles. During the PPI, the tech found the following and is noted on the printout:

Number of ignitions, range 1
5239 919.6h
Number of ignitions, range 2
132 915.8h
Operating hours counter
932.7

Is this an acceptable amount?
Is the numbers preceeding the "h" the hours of operation when this happened?
Is the Operating hours counter, the number of hours the car has been driven?

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Rich

 

Is the numbers preceeding the "h" the hours of operation when this happened?

Yup!

Is the Operating hours counter, the number of hours the car has been driven?

Yup!

Looks like the range 2 event happened kinda recently...

 

Rich IMHO a car with any type 2 (mechanical) over revs is unacceptable. The car by porsche standards is not a car they would warranty. And since there are so many cars to choose from why take a chance???

 

Rich, total engine hours are 932....the last type 2 event was 915 hours ago.... type 2 's are a crapshoot with PCNA...Kevin

 

I would look elsewhere.. there are so many perfect ones out there!

 

The last type 2 event was 17 hours ago at 915 hours on the clock. It cannot be determined if the 132 ignitions (132 rotations of crankshaft) took place in one event, or over the course of numerous events, as only the cumulative ignitions of the life span of that particular engine control module is reported.

 

Actually...NO... I have software to read my own DME and guess what? I have type 2 ignitions that were there BEFORE I bought the car . When I bought the car there were 400+ hours on the clock and range 2's at 393hours...at 500 hours total they were 493... I drove another 100 hours total and have 600 hours and the range 2 changes to 593... If I drive another hundred the range 2's will change to 693...So it didnt happen 7 hours ago as you suggest... I check my range 2's after every track event and I did 1000 miles on the roadcourse last year and no changes to my type 2 count...You are right about the number of total ignitions, you cannot tell if it was one or multiple events...Thanks for the insight....Kevin

 

It is my understanding, having spoken with a number of porsche Technicians that Range 2 simply means the very top of the rev range starting right before the redline. Which means, bouncing off the redline is a range 2 violation, not necessarily a mis-shift. That said, I'm sure most of us would find range 2s if you read our DMEs. The difference is, a mechanical mis shift would resulut in more than 1000+ ignitions and not 132. still, with the soft market, you easily find one without any range 2, so why risk it.

 

I have the Durametric tool and have been tracking ignitions since June, printing out a sheet whenever I check the ECM.

My operating hours counter of course will increase while the engine is running. But there is no change at all in the hour indicated for the type 2 event with the number of ignitions remaining the same.

I am not sure why my experience with the hours count for the ignitions differs from yours. But I am sure we can agree that these cars are a blast to drive!

 

If a range 2 is just bouncing off the redline how would you be able to find a car without a range 2? The first time somebody drives a turbo and floors it in 1st they almost always hit the redline before they know what has happened, at least that is the case with the bozos I have let drive my car.

 

I have always found these discussions confusing. I have been told the type 1's are approaching redline so you can find them on 6speeds and Tips but type 2's are a number above which the Tip software shuts the engine down so they are only found on a 6 speed. That is generally accepted but my dealer won't confirm it. No one has specified the exact RPM for a type 2 but I have seen calculations using 7200 and have always wondered if that is the point we know mechanical damage will happen? I don't know.

Well, there are 3 sparks per rev on a 6 cylinder so to convert to number of seconds in over rev you must adjust by a factor of 3. Example for this car:
At 7,200 RPMs, or 120 RPS (Revolutions Per Second) there would be 3 firings per rev, giving 360 per second. So, 132 Type 2’s is about 0.36 of a second above the measuring point. My Porsche Service Manager told me a car with 20 would have a voided warranty and another (unfortunately 900 miles away) told me no problem with the warranty. But I've found it is very hard to find zero on a six speed, so I am wondering if this really is a mis shift only phenomenon.

My best advice is if the warranty is a concern; talk to your local Service Manager to see how they would enterpret it.

Cheers,
Carmen
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03 TT X50 Midnight Blue/Grey

 

Kevin, I think you may be incorrect if you are using range 2 and type 2 over rev as the same thing. maybe this will help, some info from cyberspace......

"I discovered some information on the Type 1 and Type 2 over-revs that I would like to share. I purchased the Durametric OBD-II software and cable set a week ago and have evaluated my error codes and Over-Rev Counts The count that is recorded, and cannot be erased to my knowledge, is a count of the ignition firings above the redline threshold. It is not the total of the times that the engine has breached the redline value, as I was led to believe. The count is broken down into the two categories and I'm not sure how it does this, but it just does.

A Type 1 is an over-rev condition that thru to engines own inertia or power stroke has exceeded redline and the DME has fired the ignition during above redline and the condition has recorded the individual firings. It also records the time (Total Hours) and is revised at each event.

A Type 2 is an over-rev condition when an external force has caused the engine to speed beyond the redline threshold such as down shifting to a lower gear and engine matches the rpm of the transmission input shaft.

The difference between the two may sound subtle, but is more involved.

In a Type 1 condition, such as when one misses and up-shift. The engine is in a free-wheeling state and the internal energy is acting on the rotating and reciprocating mass. The crankshaft is unloaded for a brief moment and there is still some force on the top of the piston during most of the 4 stroke cycle.

Type 2 conditions are not healthy for the rod and rod bolts, although there must be some design reserve before yield. When one down shifts to a gear which leads to an over-rev condition, there is little energy pushing down on the head of the piston to keep the rod in a compression mode. The crankshaft is pushing violently on the rod and then jerking the piston and rod assembly back towards the crank centerline. The rods are primarily designed for a compression mode, meaning forces enacted on the top of the piston and imparting energy into the crankshaft via the connecting rod. The connecting rods and bolts really don’t like the dynamics in a stretching mode and this condition leads to material yielding. This is the condition that causes the rod bolts to fail. They yield during the stretch. The connecting rod can also yield due to stretch, but that is seen more with Aluminum Connecting Rods."

hope that makes some thing clearer for ya! Carmen?

 

Tom....are you referring to me? I was just commenting on how my total engine hours count relates to the type 2's that were there when purchased...Kevin

 

No Kevin, this Kevin!? And I may be wrong anyway

 

Tom,

Thanks, that it is more definitive than any description I've seen. Does it matter when the type 2's occurred relative to total hours on the engine? If early in engine life and it has soldiered on for many hours is it likely okay or is it considered a hand grenade with the pin pulled? I suspect any answer to that question is pure conjecture, but I just had to ask.

Carmen
__________
03 TT X50