The KKK's (both 16's and 24's) are journal bearings, yes?

I thought that journal bearings didn't use ball bearings at all, they just used oil in a sealed sleeve the acts as a spinning base for the turbos. The garretts were a big jump forward because they spool much faster (although eerly on there were some reliability issues w/ the BB turbos). The result is a larger more powerful Turbo w/ a spool up response that is comparable w/ the old (but smaller) journal bearing, yes?

When I started my research on Turbos a year ago (yes I am still a newb) all the scientific evidence supported the superiority of BB turbos.

 

Yes, the KKK's are journal bearings, unless they have been machined to accept the Garrett BB and impellar in which case they are refered to as hybrids.

 

Recently Protomotive installed the Garrett GT30r's on OHIO GT2's car (Jamie).
these are exactly as they came from Garrett (NOT hybrid), and Todd was
amazed at how quickly they spooled and how instantaneously responsive they were. Todd of course watercooled them as well.
CJV question for you: Or anybody that knows:
Do the "stock" GT30r's from Garrett flow less, more, or the same amount of
air (in lbs.) as compared to EVOMS Garrett (GT30) hybrid like the GT800's have??

MK

 

MK,

I really haven't seen anyone make any real modification to the Garrett turbo. If I had a so called designated EVOMS Garrett in my hand I would probably find it in the Garrett catalogue. It will be one of three GT30 AR turbo housings together with one of two size impellars. You can also get the impellars provided by Garrett made of a lighter material.

I have never seen a "hybrid" flow more power than a like size Garrett GT series turbo. It is like comparing apples and oranges. This is not to say one is superior to the other. I believe both have their place depending on what the customer is looking for.

To answer your question, without seeing the EVOMS so called hybrid, if it is truely a hybrid, the like GTR series in my opinion would flow more. Again, there is no such thing as a stock GT series turbo in any size. You take the GT30 for instance, your can choose from three different AR housings and a size 71 or 76 impeller. In addition, you can spec these impellers in extra light material.

Without actually seeing the EVOMS product it is hard to pin point exactly what parts they are incorporating. If I saw it it would be easy to see what they are doing. Otherwise, it is just a guess based on technology that I know is available.

Another way to answer you question would be to request a turbine and compressor map from EVOMS. You would then be able to compare with the same maps provided by Garrett on their website for each series combination they make.

 

Often these maps and flows are a big secret...
That is what I thought about the Garretts. Many people think they have
Garretts because they have some part from Garrett incorporated into their
turbos. A hybrid IS NOT a Garrett.



My turbos will be simple (non ball bearing of course) K24/18G
their flow rate is 40 lbs each. This will be "initial" Protomotive set-up,
along with some other of Todd's tricks to utilize these turbos to their best
abilities.

 

Woodster,

I haven't found obtaining maps from a turbo manufacturer to be any problem. The problem obtaining maps in most cases comes from the tuner. The reason usually is they don't want you knowing what they are using and where you can buy it. If it is so called modified that usually means a light polish on the housing.

Secrets usually bring in extra money. You can go to Todd at Protomotive and buy a Garrett GT35RS with the maps for approx. $2,100.00 each. That is a very good price.

Yes, you are correct a Hybrid is NOT a Garrett turbo.

 

These K24/18G setup seem to be a very nice setup without going to the extremes. I am sure there might be better ones out there but the custom programming from Todd seems to work extremely well with them, and that is what really matters.
CJV,it is rather difficult to get maps for the KKK turbos. In fact I don't know anyone who has them on these forums, including turbo builders. There are some out there, but they are not the ones used specifically on the Porsche 911 turbos AFAIK. Borg Wagner keeping them secret is plain ridiculous, they ended up beaten at their own game by giving all the aftermarket tuners out there an incentive to go elsewhere..

 

[quote=My turbos will be simple (non ball bearing of course) K24/18G
their flow rate is 40 lbs each. This will be "initial" Protomotive set-up,
along with some other of Todd's tricks to utilize these turbos to their best
abilities.[/quote]

I just picked up my car from Protosport yesterday with my new K24/18G setup. The TT absolutely rips now! You are going to love it... I will put together a more informative post later today.

 

str8blst,

What were you running prior to the Protomotive package?

 

I previously thought I had a GIAC chip but after Protosport took the ECU out they found I was running FVD (from the previous owner). I had K16's, FVD ECU and Europipe Exhaust (stg2 dynoed at AWE at 434 WHP). The car was very fast and I was happy with it but always wanted just a "bit" more up top. The Protomotive package completely filled my need for more power... at least for now I can't even imagine what their 700 package must be like.

 

Exciting to hear your impressions. How bout starting a new thread with tons of details?

 

Ok, who has questions, hit me with them

the A35 is not a GT35R. it uses the GT35 compressor and a GT3071R turbine

 

Tial,

what is your website? and does it have good technical explainations
like you just gave?

Welcome !!

Marty K.

 

www.tialsport.com

i'm actually in the long process of updating the website right now, I have been working on it since early Feb to get everything up to date and old information removed If you click the 'tial' tab on the main bar you will be able to see the most recent updates I have made

getting the ebay knockoff vs our wastegate page done was priority 1

 

Also something to note about the fantastic Garrett Turbos on
a 996TT which may not be obvious to everyone.
a) they should be watercooled (requires fabrication (see Markski's or Divexxtremes' pictures)
b) they require custom fab to bolt up to your existing headers (Or ideally custom headers made to accept them: ala: Like Todd at ProTo builds)
c) they require custom fab on the muffler side as well: example, Todd would have to modify the ends of my brand new Europipe to accept the Garretts.
(which would become unsalable at that point).
So, the Garretts (which I considered briefly), cost ALOT more than the cost of the Garretts !!

Who on this board has ACTUAL Garrett Turbos other than Markski, VR ALEX,
and OHIO GT2 ???

Great set-up, I must say!!

Marty K.