Seen those turbos visiting their website,

garrett gt28 with kkk hotside which bolts on the 996turbo

TiAL - 996-A28 - For the Porsche 996 Turbo * Ball bearing
* Oil & Water-cooled bearing system.
*Patented CNC Actuator Bracket.
*No Modifications to exhaust system.
*Capable to 700 Crank hp with additional engine upgrades.
*Boost threshold equal with stock.
Garrett GT-28 Based Turbocharger.


they have a new model coming named A35, assuming A28 is gt28, maybe A35 is a gt35 ?
are those the same Evoms uses?

 

I seen those too... not sure what evoms is using... but probably very close....

markski

 

These are not what EVOMS uses. EVOMS puts Garrett compressors and turbines into KKK housings.

Speed Gallery is using these turbos. As a matter of fact, I was chatting with a fellow 6Speed member just yesterday who is about to install these turbos.

Craig

 

these are the gt700 turbos! I have them in my car. My previous post about the gt35/k24's were do to TIal postng there a35 turbos on there site. They dont make those anymore. THey have a gt32/k24 coming out in a couple months. I think they only make the gt28/k16 for Evoms. I think evoms gets there gt800 turbos from elsewhere (gt30/k24) . Again my gt700 turbos from evoms are tial gt28/k16's as pictured thak you. they are great!
thanks

-Suman


Shark chime in when you can thanks

 

Craig,

Putting Garrett compressors/turbines into KKK housings is refered to a a hybrid turbo. I believe they were first introduced by S Car Go with KA. S Car Go got them from TIAL. Shortly after this became known the Stage V (EVOMS's top of the line at the time) became a short lived history (T04 turbo) and the GT series with the hybrid turbo's appeared.

The hybrids were a great evolution. In this industry secrets don't remain secret for long. As secrets become common knowledge, we the consumer benefit by way of lower prices. When there are secrets, prices are usually alot higher.

I really don't know if EVOMS makes them themselves or gets them from TIAL or someone else at this time. From my understanding and knowledge hybrids are not as efficient or as powerful as like Garrett GT series turbo's. For one the hybrids have internal waste gates which simply are not designed to flow as much as like Garrett turbo's.

Can I ask you a simple question. Take your own turbo for instance. Do you know which housings and impellars you are using. Do you have a turbo map of your units? Please do not take this as being uppity on my part. I have found that turbo's as far as most people go are rah rah. By that I mean most people do not know what they are really running and it is simply hype that sells for more money. In addition with turbo's, bigger is not better. Turbo's by their nature can do one thing or power range/acceleration/top speed etc well. No one turbo can do all things well. The car's owner must first decide what they want and a good tuner then can usually give it to them.

If anything I said offended anyone, I apologize as that was not my intent and the words don't always come out the way I intended.

 

I do not know about the GT700 turbos, as I have never used them. Suman says they are Tial units. I have no idea.

As to the GT800 turbos, I have been told that they do NOT use a KKK turbine. Rather, they use Garrett GT30 compressors and turbine, in a KKK housing, although EVOMS is currently testing certain other compressor/turbine combinations (e.g., GT30 turbine with a GT35 compressor, and GT28 turbines with a GT30 compressor), to determine what produces the optimal power under the curve.

Craig

 

Craig,

For simplicity, you have a KKK turbo which uses a solid bearing, you have a hybrid which machines a KKK housing to accept the Garrett ball bearing and impellar. By the nature of the housing you have an internal waste gate. These by their nature cannot waste as much gas as the external waste gate. They also take up room in the turbo housing. The Garrent turbo uses ball bearing and external waste gate.

All turbo's have what is referred to as a "turbo map." Ths map will tell you what power any turbo will flow at any rpm. It will tell you where the turbo overboosts and where it starts to become inefficient. Actual testing on a motor will only confirm the map.

Take KA for instance, without changing anything on the motor (just headers, intake) we could vary power from 800+ to 1300+ simply by using a different turbo (and mapping ). Each turbo would make the car superior in different circumstances. I don't really believe there is such a thing as a bad kit, stage or whatever. Different people want different things out of there cars.

 

Craig,

Keep in mind this is from Garrett. However it does help as to explaining differences.

Journal Bearings vs. Ball Bearings
The journal bearing has long been the brawn of the turbocharger, however a ball-bearing cartridge is now an affordable technology advancement that provides significant performance improvements to the turbocharger.
Ball bearing innovation began as a result of work with the Garrett Motorsports group for several racing series where it received the term the ‘cartridge ball bearing’. The cartridge is a single sleeve system that contains a set of angular contact ball bearings on either end, whereas the traditional bearing system contains a set of journal bearings and a thrust bearing

Journal Bearings
Ball Bearings
Turbo Response – When driving a vehicle with the cartridge ball bearing turbocharger, you will find exceptionally crisp and strong throttle response. Garrett Ball Bearing turbochargers spool up 15% faster than traditional journal bearings. This produces an improved response that can be converted to quicker 0-60 mph speed. In fact, some professional drivers of Garrett ball-bearing turbocharged engines report that they feel like they are driving a big, normally aspirated engine.

Tests run on CART turbos have shown that ball-bearings have up to half of the power consumption of traditional bearings. The result is faster time to boost which translates into better drivability and acceleration.
On-engine performance is also better in the steady-state for the Garrett Cartridge Ball Bearing

Reduced Oil Flow – The ball bearing design reduces the required amount of oil required to provide adequate lubrication. This lower oil volume reduces the chance for seal leakage. Also, the ball bearing is more tolerant of marginal lube conditions, and diminishes the possibility of turbocharger failure on engine shut down.

Improved Rotordynamics and Durability – The ball bearing cartridge gives better damping and control over shaft motion, allowing enhanced reliability for both everyday and extreme driving conditions. In addition, the opposed angular contact bearing cartridge eliminates the need for the thrust bearing commonly a weak link in the turbo bearing system.

Competitor Ball Bearing Options – Another option one will find is a hybrid ball bearing. This consists of replacing only the compressor side journal bearing with a single angular contact ball bearing. Since the single bearing can only take thrust in one direction, a thrust bearing is still necessary and drag in the turbine side journal bearing is unchanged. With the Garrett ball bearing cartridge the rotor-group is entirely supported by the ball bearings, maximizing efficiency, performance, and durability.

Ball Bearings in Original Equipment – Pumping up the MAZDASPEED Protegé’s heart rate is a Garrett T25 turbocharger system. With Garrett technology on board, the vehicle gains increased acceleration without sacrificing overall efficiency and it has received many rave reviews from the world’s top automotive press for it’s unprecedented performance.

 

Chad that was extremely insightful, thankyou for posting..

I wonder what would have to be upgraded as well to make the most out of these turbos and to have an "ideal" setup, tuning wise and with the extra airflow in and out!

 

Those Tial units look purdy. I did not know they were manufacturing turbos, it that a new line for them? Anyway, I had a Tial WG that replaced an old miserable Turbonetics Deltagate (I love other Turbonectics stuff BTW). The Tial WG was exceptional in fit, finish and function.

 

Anyone know a ballpark how much this go for?

 

Good informative post Chad.

 

Any update to a few questions asked?

 

from what turbos from kkk would you compare those hybrid garrets gt 28 and the future gt32 (assuming they respect garrets specs)? k24 , k16/24, k24/26, k26, k27 ?

 

Here is the Garrett website

www.turbobygarrett.com

Here is the TIAL website

www.tialsport.com

Here is the Turbonetics website

www.turboneticsinc.com