1+ ...my OEM clutch is gone ..... Stephen at IA hooked my up with upgrades headers and EVO WG...

Can I install the new WG without installing the new GT1 Clutch?

 

WG has nothing to do with the clutch. However if your clutch is gone it needs to be replaced

 

The stock WG springs will not hold the boost, so tightening them?...will not help!

 

Hey Guys,
I linked to this thread through the recent wastegate thread since I am in the midst of tweaking this mod as well. I figured I would shed some light on this topic for anyone interested in the theory.....

First off, to reiterate, a pressure gage and source of pressure is essential. The device that John D. (Hey John!) posted a picture of is a great tool and cheap to make. Although I haven't gone through the process yet, I would concur with two posters that the gates should start to crack at about 12psi for GIAC Stage 4 programming (approx. 600 crank hp and K24's).

Some definitions......
1 bar equals the standardized atmospheric pressure at sea level = 14.5 psi.
0.7 bar = 10.15 psi
0.8 bar = 11.60 psi
0.9 bar = 13.05 psi
1.0 bar = 14.50 psi
1.1 bar = 15.95 psi
1.2 bar = 17.40 psi
1.3 bar = 18.85 psi
1.4 bar = 20.30 psi

We all know the turbos, regardless of size, need to bleed off excess boost that the intake system and programming cannot handle. This is where the springs come into play. They are very simply the means to keep the lip shut. The lid is the actual wastegate.

Springs are very simple and function according to:

F = (k) times (x)

F = force on spring
k = spring constant (varies with stiffness of spring)
x = displacement of spring

Remember algebra???!!! LOL

Example...
F = 100 pounds
k = 100 pounds/inch
x = 1 inch for every 100 pounds applied to it.

For that example, 100 pounds will depress the spring 1 inch, 200 pounds depresses the spring 2 inches, 300 pounds depresses the spring 3 inches, etc. But, remember, adding more and more force will eventually compress the spring completely leaving no travel.

This works with all springs except progressive springs.

So, the point of the whole spring upgrade is to allow the spring to be commensurate with the increased boost pressures of aftermarket programming. The apparent problem with the stock spring is that it is designed for a system that is boosting to 0.7 bar or 10.15 psi (see above). With the aftermarket programming, the pressures are upwards of 18.85 psi or 86% higher!! So, you can crank up the stock springs adding resistive force (pretension force) with each crank, however, you are running out of travel at the same time. As you crank the rod nuts tighter and tighter, you are compressing the spring and eliminating more and more travel. This will eventually, if overdone, limit the opening size of the wastgate since the spring doesn't have any more travel to allow it to open farther. Hence, stiffer springs are necessary to move the working range into something appropriate for the higher boost pressures.

I haven't done it yet, but if someone has some time on their hands, I would REALLY like to know the stiffness difference between the stock vs. upgraded springs. The test is simple. Hang a weight on the uninstalled rod mechanism and measure the movement of the rod. Do this for the stock spring and for the upgraded spring. Post the results here. Remember, the weight cannot bottom out the spring. It has to be appropriately weighted to allow the spring to work in its usable range. They can be different weights. Just record the weight and distance the rod moved for both circumstances, stock vs. upgrade.

OK, I guess that is enough of that!!! LOL

 

unless you have evo programming changing the springs are a waste.

 

I have stock version adjusted to 1.1-1.2 and they are fine.

 

Oak, I've got the Orton flash and adjusted the wastegates to show a solid 1 bar. I accomplished this by turning the WG arm nuts 4 full turns. I am getting a Europipe II in several weeks (4 week waiting list). Do you think with the reduced backpressure that I will see an increase in boost? Perhaps a solid 1.1 bar with a 1.2 spike with a quicker spool using the stock wastegates? Just curious since you are using stock WG's.

 

I have my stock wg's adjusted to 1.1-1.2 @ colder climates and never has gone limp. not too sure about the orton prg. you can probably crank it upto 1.1 and still be safe. I don't think you will see more boost but probably quicker boost with the europipe. if they are 100 cell you will notice improved quicker boost.

I know of a quite a few people that have struggled to dial-in the evo wg's with ob limp issues. once they have figured that they need to crank down the evo wgs to prevent ob they all have mentioned that it was a waste. no gain.

 

Do you remember how many turns you made (arm nut) to accomplish that boost when you adjusted the WG's? My program seems to compensate for colder temps. It will not hit 1 bar unless the engine water temp is over 180. When it hits 180 WT, it hits 1 solid bar immediately. In the colder weather (60 below), the engine will struggle to get to 180 and the boost is regulated (.9 to 1 bar spike). Could Orton have a limp proof program depending on temp?

 

Not at all the case with my REVO tuned GT2. The stock springs will bleed boost earlier regardless of how much they are cranked down to hold at full boost. Once I installed EVO WG's I consistantly get noticably higher boost at part throttle and at lower RPM than with stock WG's. That IS the effect of the heavy springs in the EVO WG's no matter how far you "crank them down" to avoid overboost.

FWIW, mine are set to hold 1.1 with a spike of 1.2. Aside from the B&M SSK, the EVO WG's are the best bang for the buck I have invested so far.

 

UMW sells a set of springs that I believe Kevin has pre-loaded to open at 1.1 to 1.2 bar. I believe you just replace the springs at the stock settings and the gates open at the preset load. This may be a safer way to go to prevent a overboost limp mode. I'm curious to see what happens after the exhaust installation. If the boost still seems unresponsive a set of springs or new WGs could be in the future. Was it difficult to get them both adjusted properly after the installation?

 

Nope... pretty damn easy providing you either make or purchase a pressure tester. I made one from a small bike pump and an old boost gauge I had laying around. Adjusting them by pressure is the only way to get them properly adjusted and in-sync.

Even if you're new exhaust puts a smile on your face, I strongly suggest new WG's too. They aren't expensive, and will give you better part throttle response and low RPM boost.

 

bodybag, you are pretty lucky with the revo prg. you are one of the very few that don't have an evo prg and not have an ob situation. not so with my stock springs they hold fine up to 1.1-1.2 and have no problems with ob. umw still need to be dialed in, but still doesn't guarantee ob problems.

 

Has anyone tried UMW/Kevins waste gate kit. Im thinking of buying his kit since i have his 1.2 bar program ? Im a littlle nervous about grinding the the stock waste gates. Any thoughts?

 

A 100% correct!!!