The left brake issue has been there since e-gas...whether it's 4wd or 2wd. I still don't get the value of left foot braking while gasing the throttle, other than to warm up brake pads or to test the brakes at the begining of a track run. What advantage is there???

 

Tapping the brakes while still on the power is a 'cheating'
technique available with the 996tt, if you're racing and running
with PSM turned off. PSM is turned back on whether you like
it or not when the brakes are on, so if you over-bake it on the
power, a tap on the brakes can stabilize the car miraculously,
more than any other car would do... (so I hear. I never race my
car...)
Joe
Joe

 

So Joe, if you don't have PSM issues alla GT2,GT3 what is the point of left foot braking while still on the throttle??? I don't mean blipping under heal toe w/ clutch in...I seen some people complain about the inability to do so w/ egas cars...

 

It gives you about enough time to do about a ¾ blip then thinks you your foot is on the brake and the throttle at the same time (which it is) and the throttle shuts off. No double down shifts, no trail braking, no proper gear matching … no fun

 

I find with my GT3 that when I brake...once ready to shift, clutch goes in...downshift, still braking all the while, then I blip and let clutch out and your off to the races... Can't be done with a TT

 

Left foot braking allows you to do several things:
1) transfer some weight to front end while not losing boost in turbos
2) in low torque, high-reving engines like in the S2000, you maintain RPMs and stay in the power band.

There are other reasons to do it, but that is just a quick answer.

 

While still on the gas? It might be to keep the
boost pressure up (if the E-gas system doesn't
shut off the gas), but the power fighting the
rear wheel's brakes would mess up the brake
bias... As to RPMs, that couldn't happen. Either
the car slows down and the RPMS do too, unless
the clutch slips
In quick manouevers in traffic with a motorcycle
that had a lot of drive-train slack, I would
sometimes brake enough to set up a between-car
swerve, but keeping the throttle on enough to
keep the drivetrain under load so I went smoothly
and quickly in my chosen direction when I let
off the brake...
JOe
Joe

 

so if you live in a state that has lots of rain (washington state) it wouldn't be advisable to have a RWD as a daily driver huh

 

Now that is an interesting statement. You can’t left foot brake but you can heel toe???? Excuse me?? I guess I’ve been doing this too long then and the definition of heel toe has changed. When I started racing 25 years ago this is what heel toe meant. As you come down the straight away at Daytona going into turn one as fast as you can, you go from top gear to first or second depending on how your car is geared. You may use every gear on the way down or you may skip shift but you NEVER take your foot off the brake. During this time with your foot on the brake you may need to blip several times and/or even stay on throttle for longer than a blip. If I’m in a car with a straight cut crash box and I don’t need the clutch, I may chose to use my left on the brake. In that case I’m simply using two feet to accomplish what I would otherwise accomplish with one. According to what you explained, I would be able to do this if I was to heel toe but not able to do it if I was using my left foot to brake. What is the difference between that left foot braking and heel toe in that scenario? Other than the number feet you use, you are accomplishing exactly the same thing. I’m sure even Mario would agree with that. Again, I need you to explain this to me.

As far as taking it to the limit I wish there was a less arrogant way to explain this but I’m paid to do precision driving in television commercials, I’m paid to do new car testing as a professional race car driver by an independent research Company in So Cal called AMCI, I’m paid to do individual manufacturing testing on new cars. I hold or have held SCCA, IMSA AMLS and FIA Grade B professional licenses, I’ve won 12 Hours of Sebring in the GTU class and the list goes on, however, my point is, I think I qualify as a “professional” and I don’t agree with those other “pros” you speak of.

You thought I was wrong? Well, no doubts I have been wrong before but, in this case I think you where mistaken. The reason I took the time to correct you is I didn’t want the other that read and rely on this post to be mislead. In order to do certain time saving maneuvers such as pitching the car it WILL NOT let you do that with out bogging down. In other words it will allow a little bit of oversteer on turn exits but, if you go beyond that, and yes, there are reasons when you need to do this, the will slam the binders on and it’s very frustrating.

 

I still think you're wrong. Sorry. Heal-toe and left foot are not the same thing. Heal toe involves using the clutch by common definition. Left foot braking means no clutch, but braking and giving throttle simultaneously. That's the difference. It's a large difference.

Just for clarification, heal-toe (at least how we're discussing here) is to brake, and rev match down shift with the right foot, while clutching with the left. The Turbo does this just fine.

Left foot braking as discussed here is to not clutch, but attempt to maintain throttle while applying a little brake into or in a turn. If you apply both of those simultaneously too long, the throttle gets cut out (as long as the clutch is not used) on the Turbo. That is kind of annoying.

I think we may have an issue of definition, but see my definitions above and see if you have experienced the same thing.

 

Heel toe may not be the exact same thing as left foot braking, but, both can be used to accomplish the exact same mechanical results. According you this is either meaningless or not possible because you made it clear that one works and the other doesn’t… (edited to relieve Scotts confusion)

I can’t be any clearer than braking going into turn one of the road course at Daytona.

I’m not going to sit on here and argue with you but, I will try to explain this one more time. You make statements that I’m wrong yet you have no idea what you’re talking about. You site using heel toe for one thing, blipping. So, by definition you’re say blipping is heel toeing then or you have to admit it can be used for other things as well. If you’re of the belief that blipping the throttle for a half second and jamming the car in gear is doing much, most of the time it doesn’t accomplish anything more than just using the clutch, not blipping and down shifting the car. Most beginners miss the proper match when actually moving the lever into the gate. Heal toe it used to allow a driver to “operate the throttle as they wish while braking.” This would include trail braking, proper gear matching, which sometimes takes holding the throttle a little longer, multiple down shifts without lifting off the brake pedal etc. If you match gears properly these cars are actually pretty easy to drive both up shifting and down shifting without using the clutch. When the throttle gets shut off during a gear match you can’t get it to engage without breaking something and that’s not good.

If it works for you in your car the way you drive, that’s great but, when someone asks a question and it’s answered that there is a problem in extreme cases, you really shouldn’t answer saying that statement is wrong when in fact you don’t really know and are simply guessing because you haven’t experienced it for yourself. Do you only run Texaco gas and Oil and anti-freeze because Mario says that what he uses? I mean he wouldn’t lie to you.

 

Cary,

It sounds like you have some sort of complex. Relax man.
I'm no beginner or newbie and as I said, I think it's an issue of symantics.

Ok.. "you're not wrong" ... happy now?

I never said blipping is heal toeing... you can blip w/o heal toe shifting. Rev matching is not heal toe.
These forums sometimes suck for these discussions if the definitions used by each are different.

What I'm reading and what we're saying appear to be very similar, but again... symantics.

If you wonder why we are having this problem of communication, read this statement again from your last post:

"Heel toe may not be the exact same thing but, that can both be used to accomplish the exact same thing"

WTF? lol

Now relax and go to bed. Sheesh.

 

How about the original question- which format is the superior format, ie faster around the track? I think we all agree the 2wd is more engaging, but if you had to go racing which is better?

I seem to remember something about the C4S being substantially fast than the C2 around the Ring...

Ryan

 

I did a lot of work on a 1989 C4 and at the end we converted it to 2WD and it was faster. Mark Maholic’s 993 C4 that was on the cover of Excellence in 1997 painted like an AZ flag was faster as a 2WD than a AWD. The GT2 is faster around the Porsche race facility than the X50. However, all this NOT without the typical “if’s” and “buts.” After I finish testing with my personal car I’m taking the AWD out, I think I will like driving it better but, I don’t know that it will be fast. I think there is no doubt that at 8/10’s the AWD is much more forgiving but, at 10/10’s in good racing conditions I think 2WD is still faster but partially because there is so much more development with 2WD cars.

I’ve also spent a fair amount of time in a 1990 Audi S4 race car which is still one of the funest car’s I’ve driven. Some of this could have to do with weight distribution in an Audi which seems to lend it’s self to AWD because I think that car as a 2WD would be a pig with the engine half way over the front axle.

Very hard question to answer and I'm not sure anyone knows for sure yet. Even if I'm faster in my car as a 2WD that still doesn't really prove anything.

 

don't get me wrong, but if the GT2 drifts around corners, doesn't it lose traction (drift) thus making it exit corners slower whereas the turbo has better traction and no power is lost? i know that the Gt2 posted better ring times than the turbo, but if someone can clarify...

flame me if i'm wrong, i'm a porsche noob