Kevin, rest assure it was done. If you look at the above pics the bow tailing wasn't done at the time either. I have so many pics and they are not in time line order

 

 

 

We have three cranks, here is the specs on the one shown earlier.



The reason for the pics isn't to show everything. It is to demonstrate the labor/machining involved to fit the GT1/965 three index oil pump. The cost of the pump and machining by itself is more than the total cost a a rebuild. But the Holy Grail's motor will live in constant high rpm places.

 

Kevin, our final crank isn't "factory." It is Avon. It is stroked, reduced journals for ovals, knife edged and a little more. I don't know about " the most important" as for the above shown crank. The journal sizes are not stock Porsche ....... they are for NASCAR ovals. Why do you suppose the crank was nitrated? You have to remember work was done and redone over a period of time. We also have two cases. The current build has the extra holes in the mains just like all our rods have an extra hole in the wrist pin side. None of our pics show this either.

By the way, this is the second of three cranks. The last one is 80 mm. Unfortunately, like the cams I can't show pics at this time.

 

Kevin, try as I may to explain, do you understand that the above pics are not the final product as she currently sits on S Car Go Racing's floor? It's been a long time since we talked, do you realize how many times we have redone parts because we found something better? This doesn't just apply to the case, but also rods, cranks, valves, pistons, lifters, heads and cams. I would have no hesitation to line up with any other street tt, take them both to 9500 (if the other is even designed to go there, if not 8500 would be fine) and see which motor lets loose first. KA is designed to live there and not just for a few seconds.

 

Kevin,

I understand and agree with what you are saying. What I was trying to convey is my pics are not up to date time or sequence wise. If you look at the case pic you will see it isn't bow tailed. However, it is bow tailed and I would have to spend alot of time to find the bow tailed pics. The same with the crank. My computer files are labeled something like 602615-17 and so forth. It doesn't tell me what is in the file and I never indexed or label them.

 

Sorry Scott, but that statement is laughable and deserves a response. First off,UMW is hardly profiteering as you suggest. That would be hard to do since our setups are probably half the cost of your buildup(I think) and that includes the crank, rods , casework and heads that are flowing extraordinary CFM numbers. I really dont want to get in this argument with you, but I still have no response to why Porsche changed the crank in the street GT3 let alone the GT3RS . If the TT crank was sufficient above 7500 rpms , why did Porsche change it out for a new unit especially given the fact that it is a NA motor and is under less stress since there isnt as much TQ as a TT setup...If they werent confident in the stock crank in a a high RPM NA motor, surely they wouldnt have confidence in a stock TT motor in that application. As for the oiling mods... we had to wait for quite some time to get our cases done because there were 40 Porsche Motorsports cases ahead of ours at the machine shop getting the SAME mods.... we must All be crazy... anyway, this goes back to the different philosophies...I know you will have a great car, although can it keep up with Mark? ....lol...sorry , couldnt resist but damn did he set a highmark for the rest of us Be good, Kevin

 

The only person suggesting profiteering is you, Kevin. I never did. My point was, if Todd thought it was necessary to change it, he would recommend it...and it would have been in his financial benefit to do so. The same would apply to Todd Z at EVOMS, who also does not recommend it. I'm not talking about Kevin at all.


I can't answer why Porsche decided to swap it out...and to tell the truth, it really doesn't matter to me since I'm not driving a GT3RS.

What I'm saying is that my tuner, who has set the benchmark for high HP Porsches...doesn't recommend it. And no offense, but I trust his opinion over anyone elses when it coms to modifying the Porsche TT.

I'm not sure if I'll be able to keep up with Mark, but that's not my goal. Plus...my car will never be as light as his is.

 

Mark wants one to rev to 9k, not because he's necessarily worried about damage at 8.2k.

-That's not what he said "I wish I had one"

My tuner could easily earn increased profit by recommending that his customers upgrade to a GT3RS crank...but since he doesn't believe it's needed, he doesn't recommend it.

-Oh really! Let me ask you, If your engine go's BOOM is your tuner going to stand behind it, fix it for free? I hope so, if not then we really know who profits!

As a matter of fact, Todd told me he feels the GT3RS crank can even possibly be a bad thing. Since the oil passages are drilled all the way through, at low rpms with a high torque engine...it can cause the rod to squish the oil out back through the oil hole, which can cause it to contact the bearing to the journal and...ouch! Of course, the GT3's won't have this problem since they don't make a lot of torque (respectively).

-The GT3Rs is built to withstand tremendous punishment & Porsche knows this thus building it to withstand the beating! Again, I want to build it right once & not be limited by somthing that could of been done! Even the rods for the GT3rs are stronger! I wonder why?

Instead of swapping the crank out on my car, Todd is bumping the pressure up on my oil pressure regulator to maintain better lubrication at high RPM.

-Try to blow or breath threw a straw thats how that pump feels! It will create pressure in the crank, but not @ the bearing where it needs it!

Anyway, as has already been said...different tuning philosiphies.[/quote]

-Correct different philosiphies, Look we all benefit from this info! I started the thread as to Why we always blame the rods when there could something else @ fault!

Be Good
Tom

 

Scott, you said in the previous post that you tuner doesnt recommend it , but could if he wanted to increase profits...that is a slam to us plain and simple since our tuner does recommend it. If you had just stayed with the recommendation that would have been fine but the profit issue was not needed. As for you not driving a GT3RS...you should be concerned since your engine will be under so much more stress than that one... As far as recommendations, they are fleeting in my opinion especially since what is publicly bashed on this forum is privately sought after when the computers are turned off...especially when it comes to tuning... Be good, I like you too much to argue beyind this...Kevin

 

KPG and everyone else,

I can't believe everyone is bickering over the crank and oiling. Frankly, nothing has been proven in this area yet. There isn't even a handful of street 996tt's that even have the ability to rev over 8200 and of those they aren't racking up alot of miles. Even more so, the ones that are out there don't stay in the 8200 rpm range too very long. Face it, these street motors are not going to have very long rebuild intervals, that is if you drive them hard. Even if you don't the intervals will be far shorter than a near stock motor. Will all these details make a difference ............. mabe yes, maybe no.

I would suspect if they did, the result would not be unlike the bent rod result that I first proved about 3-1/2 years ago. Everyone believed there was a limits somewhere over 700 hp, we just never saw the results at the time.

Details are very nice. They are like buying insurance. You simply have to make your own decision if you need or want it.

Off the subject, but I see alot of people clammoring to get into the high rpm stratosphere and not a word about addressing case windage. Doesn't make alot of sense to me, but then again ........... what do I know.

 

I was wondering, does the gt3-rs crank come from Porsche cross drilled?? I can see going to the small block Chevy oval bearing, and of course the better pump, but we got away from x-drilling cranks about 5 years ago and went to the 'kinked' (for lack of a better word) oil passages in all the cranks we did for oval track motors as well as trans am and sprint cars. We also have used the even smaller Honda size oval bearing for short track motors. But I do not think it would work in higher hp applications.
The other thing we noticed in using these small journal cranks was that in cranks drilled with the rod oil passage/main passage intersection point very near the surface,the bearings would show more wear on teardown after a race, the cranks that had this point deeper 'inside" the crank would show almost no wear. We suspected it was due to the turbulence caused by having the exit hole and the 2 crank holes meeting at the same place. Anyhow we just made sure that all cranks we ordered were drilled this (deeper) way.
Now I have never done a Porsche motor but as a former shop owner/racer I am always looking at how things are done..

 

Chad, this is real far from bickering...just 2 guys with differing views. You bring up some good points. Like insurance, I hope I never need it but it is nice to have. What is your view on the cross drilling and oiling mods....are you concerned that with your high TQ engine it is a detrimental upgrade as Scott suggests. You may have a different crank,but it seems like it is the cross drilling that is being questioned...Kevin

 

Kevin, as I said, I was not slamming Kevin M., you, or UMW. I'm sorry it came across that way.

My personal opinion IRT the GT3RS crank is that unless you plan on running upwards of 8,500 rpm or more...it's an unecessary expense that might do more harm than good on high torque cars. In that regard, I feel the same way about it that I do the titanium rods that RUF uses; not necessary.