What's involved in changing them? whole new transmission? Longer 1-3 gears sounds interesting.

 

Chad has done that. He would be the best to ask. I wanted to change 1st and 2nd, but I am running out of time currently. If you do that go for the stainless synchros as well. If you are planning to run 600hp + you will need some form of Transmition oil cooling as well. Either a GT-2 midddle housing or a Tilton pump configuration.

 

When you change 1st and 2nd you are changing the main shaft which makes these gears more expensive. Third gear is about $400.00 plus. To buy all three is about $3,000. Then you have to remove tranny, install gears and re install. About $2,000 to $2,700 in labor.

If you are going through all that expense you should replace the stock syncro's will steel syncro's. I can't recall the price but first is about $1,300 dollars, probably about $2,000 to $2,500 for the three syncro's.

If you are still interested, give Paul Guard at Guard Transmissions a call. Toll free number (888) 89 GEARS or e-mail gears@gte.net . Paul is a great person to work with. He will assist you with any information, diagrams sheets etc. that you need. I have changed all six gears, six syncro's and added a Tilton oil pump and cooler along with tranny filter to Killer Angel.

 

This is an excellent post!!!

I just begun doing my research in this area. Perhaps someone else has already found a supplier who offers tranny gear ratio options.

I am not sure that everyone realizes the benefits of optimized gear ratios. It can SIGNIFICANTLY improve acceleration times!!

Why do you think the Ford GT, Ferrari Enzo, and Saleen S7 have outstanding 0-60, 0-100, and 0-150 acceleration times. Well, of course they make great power, but another reason is the transmission ratios. I believe that all of them can hit 60mph in 1st gear,etc..

With proper tranny gear ratios, I think low 3 second 0-60 times, sub 7 second 0-100 mph times and, and mid 10 second 1/4 mile times would be very realistic with something as mild as an X-50 with an ECU and exhaust upgrade (600-650 hp package)!!

Hopefully someone has figured this out....

Anyone????

 

Gears by themselves will not make your X50 streetable and a ten second car. You can figure proper gearing would be like adding approx. fifty hp to your motor. If you change first and second you can obtain better lower end acceleration with some additional bolt on's. By changing fourth, fifth and sixth you can become alot quicker from 130 to top end. However, your fuel economy will suffer.

Killer Angel with her 3.16-1 ratio first gear, her power along with a 8100 red line has a 0-60 mph time well below three seconds. She doesn't require shifting to second in order to arrive a 60 mph.

 

02turboX50,
it would take a lot more than that to run that kind of numbers. I might get close but with around 750hp. You would also have to increase revs to hit 60mph in 1st with a modified ratio to around 8000rpm. In order to do that you would have to alter head configuration to a GT-3 with vario cam not variocam 2 of the turbo. This would only reach 7400rpm.

 

Thanks for the insight. Just for clarification, I was not referring to a stock X-50, but a 600-650hp X-50.

Using some rough calculations I was determining more optimized ratios for the following in a Tiptronic car:
1st gear: 63 mph at 6400 rpms (2.7 ratio vs. 3.59 stock)
2nd gear: 92 mph at 6400 rpms (1.9 ratio vs 2.19 stock)
3rd gear: 134 mph at 6400 rpms (1.3 ratio vs. 1.41 stock)
4th gear: 170 mph at 6400 rpms (.92 ratio vs. 1.00 stock)
5th gear: 205 mph at 6400 rpms (.85 ratio vs. .83 stock)

With a long 1st gear, launch/traction issues would be drastically reduced. Very low 3 second 0-60 times should result. By reaching the end of the 1/4 mile in 3rd gear would significantly reduce these times as well. I believe Sharkster with around 650hp was already knocking on the door of 10 seconds, and this was with crappy tranny ratios that would necessitate a shift to the very long 4th gear in a tip.

I was the one who brought the LETHAL 750 Viper to the Car and Driver Supercar Challenge a little over a year ago. We spent about a year building and designing a 750+ hp naturally aspirated, 91 Octane pump gas package for the Dodge Viper. How do you think we were able to beat a 750hp+ AWD Autothority car in the 0-60 (3.5 s) and 0-100 (7.3s) acceleration tests??? I believe this Porsche produced 650 hp at the wheels..... and had pulled off mid 130 quarter mile times...

I think the tranny ratios are the key....
It would be interesting to see what improvements could be found....

 

With 3.16-1's at 7000 rpm's your top speed in first would be approx. 48 mph. You need the 8000+ rpm's to get to sixty in first gear. The stock turbo's have a 3.86-1 first gear ratio which at 7000 rpm's will take it to approx. 39 mph. The GT2's have a 3.50-1 first gear ratio. To go lower than 3.16-1's would make a launch very difficult on a flat plane and starting up an incline would be almost impossible. As it is to use 3.16-1 gears require a substancially better clutch to launch hard. I am not aware of any one who make a different R&P gear for the turbo, so you can't go there.

 

I was told that Guenter tuned the Authority car. (at least that's what he told me)I Don't beleive it had more than 650hp crank with the numbers it was running. 11.3 quarter mile etc.

Chad you hit the point. A 2.7 ratio would not work well.
I am so pissed I didn't change the ratios since we changed all gears and syncro's. Don't think I am going to do it know.

 

I think the Autothority car was definitely pushing close to 750hp. When I was speaking to them at the Car and Driver event, I thought they mentioned it was making 650hp at the wheels....

The acceleration and quarter mile times at the event should not be taken literally. We did not bring the cars to the strip to measure acceleration. We did it at MIS (Michigan International speedway) and the end of a turn and onto the straight away. The numbers were measured by a GPS tracking system, definitely much different from a normal run at the drag strip. Not to mention the conditions...it rained the morning of the event and the prior evening. There was no spray put on the track to help traction.

The acceleration times should be looked at as more of a comparison. Most of the participants there had tested their cars at real dragstrips prior to the event. The consensus was that cars were running about 4-6mph and .5 seconds than a typical dragstrip setup.

If you don't believe me, just look at these times compared to the stockers they tested the same way using the same systems, etc..

Stock Porsche Turbo: 0-60- 4.5 s, 0-100- 9.9s, 1/4 mile-12.9s @115mph.
Autothority Porsche: 0-60- 3.6s, 0-100 7.5s, 1/4 mile 11.6 @ 129mph

I think if you want to get a better comparison of the acutal performance of the car tested, it may make more sense to think of it as being about 1 second quicker 0-60, almost 2.5 seconds quicker 0-100, and 1.3 seconds quicker and almost 15 mph quicker through the quarter mile when compared to a stock turbo.....

 

I only know what Guenter stated. He said this was a 650hp car. He is working with Joerg on my car as well. We should get around 740hp. In think we will not do less than a 10.7 on the quarter

 

All-
I think we might be talking about 2 different setups. I can certainly understand how a hard launch or starting the car from a stop may be difficult with a 2.7 gear ratio using a manual.

However, I am talking about a tiptronic setup which has a different rear end ratio. That is why we could achieve 60mph in 1st gear with only 6400 rpms...

I think this could be the ticket for some very fast 0-60 and 1/4 mile times with no traction lost. Doesn't Sharkster's car have about 650hp? I know he was in the low 11's with the stock tiptronic ratios. A proper ratio combination should easily take at least .5 seconds off the 1/4 mile time, especially when you look at the ratios for the tiptronic....

I am back to doing some research... I still believe 10's are possible with a Tiptronic and about 650 hp.

After all, the Viper community laughed at me when I set out to make a 750hp/800tq pump gas naturally aspirated motor that passed emissions........

 

it'd probably cost a pretty penny to change the gears in the tip