Tuning my 996tt
#62
04-12-2007, 08:34 AM
Originally Posted by ace996
Its good to see that the closed-door/blackmagic/privateclub of tuning TTs era is soon to be over. Now perhaps someone will market a meth/water injection kit and actually have an ability to properly tune for it...this is going to be a revolution for TTs.
#63
04-12-2007, 08:35 AM
Originally Posted by Divexxtreme
I ran water/alcohol on my M3. It worked fine...but it's a PITA. I'd never run it on a P-car.
that said, i dont even know if the stock injectors can be controlled enough (dialed way back) to handle the extra feuling......
#64
04-12-2007, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by ace996
CJV,
I have no doubt that youhave the ability to properly tune a TT without W/I. We've gone down this road before, and I have different opinions. There is no doubt that W/I, when properly tuned on a turbo motor, will make more power...and safer than if it wasn't employed. You state that you've "experimented" with it...which system? was it progressive? did you have control over spray? Pressure? Things have changed quite a bit in a few years. Perhaps you should look at Aquamist's new offerings, with the high-speed-valves...they act much like fuel-injectors and are much easier to control/tune. Surely your clients would appreciate another offering that would allow their engines to operate at safer levels with consistant performance from cooler intake temps?...and I don't mean on the street, I mean on the track...where heatsoak exists. We've seen 60-80degF drops from W/I over intercoolers alone!!!! It'd be nice to have the same power on a 110deg day as when it's 50degs...no???
The STIs, Evos, GNs, trucks, past F1 cars, EVERY WRC car for years, F/I Vettes, ect....all have shown phenomenal gains from W/I. The only reason why it hasn't shown to be a great addition to the P-car world is lack of experience with it.
If it's not your bag, fine...it's OK. But weight?...W/I too much weight??? Should someone be so serious to forego the 20-some-odd-lbs of a good W/I system, then I assume they don't have A/C or a radio on their car? Or front windshield wipers?...one can just use RainX. And then remove all carpet/insulation...ect. It doesn't weigh that much, which systems are you referring to ???
I'm waiting to see a tuner take a 996TT and properly run a W/I system on it. I've no doubt 5-10%...probably the higher side...increase in power and spool will be achieved, over what is possible without it. There is just so little actual experience with it here, I'm more than a little surprised...but then again only a few have actually had the ability to "tune" for it. That will soon change.
Shiv...you need to do some W/I testing!!!!
Perhaps then the voodo of it will be put to rest.
Be good,
TomK
I have no doubt that youhave the ability to properly tune a TT without W/I. We've gone down this road before, and I have different opinions. There is no doubt that W/I, when properly tuned on a turbo motor, will make more power...and safer than if it wasn't employed. You state that you've "experimented" with it...which system? was it progressive? did you have control over spray? Pressure? Things have changed quite a bit in a few years. Perhaps you should look at Aquamist's new offerings, with the high-speed-valves...they act much like fuel-injectors and are much easier to control/tune. Surely your clients would appreciate another offering that would allow their engines to operate at safer levels with consistant performance from cooler intake temps?...and I don't mean on the street, I mean on the track...where heatsoak exists. We've seen 60-80degF drops from W/I over intercoolers alone!!!! It'd be nice to have the same power on a 110deg day as when it's 50degs...no???
The STIs, Evos, GNs, trucks, past F1 cars, EVERY WRC car for years, F/I Vettes, ect....all have shown phenomenal gains from W/I. The only reason why it hasn't shown to be a great addition to the P-car world is lack of experience with it.
If it's not your bag, fine...it's OK. But weight?...W/I too much weight??? Should someone be so serious to forego the 20-some-odd-lbs of a good W/I system, then I assume they don't have A/C or a radio on their car? Or front windshield wipers?...one can just use RainX. And then remove all carpet/insulation...ect. It doesn't weigh that much, which systems are you referring to ???
I'm waiting to see a tuner take a 996TT and properly run a W/I system on it. I've no doubt 5-10%...probably the higher side...increase in power and spool will be achieved, over what is possible without it. There is just so little actual experience with it here, I'm more than a little surprised...but then again only a few have actually had the ability to "tune" for it. That will soon change.
Shiv...you need to do some W/I testing!!!!
Perhaps then the voodo of it will be put to rest.
Be good,
TomK
#65
04-12-2007, 12:46 PM
Ah Shiv...my nemesis 
Welcome aboard! We are testing our application very similar to yours. Looking forward to seeing your results as well What you and I are doing will definitely change this market. Glad to have you hear buddy.
Dan
Welcome aboard! We are testing our application very similar to yours. Looking forward to seeing your results as well What you and I are doing will definitely change this market. Glad to have you hear buddy.Dan
#66
04-12-2007, 12:50 PM
Using a 10 gallon / hour injector (relatively small) on my water/Meth allows me to run 28' timing on my 454 suburban with 12lbs boost and no intercooler.
It is a PITA. For the hardcore, it is no big deal.
It is a PITA. For the hardcore, it is no big deal.
#67
04-12-2007, 01:15 PM
Originally Posted by Zippy
Using a 10 gallon / hour injector (relatively small) on my water/Meth allows me to run 28' timing on my 454 suburban with 12lbs boost and no intercooler.
It is a PITA. For the hardcore, it is no big deal.
It is a PITA. For the hardcore, it is no big deal.
#68
04-12-2007, 01:44 PM
You would need some pretty serious octane to run my suburban setup.
That being said, I agree. If I could drive up to the pump and fill her up with 120, I'd be all over it.
That being said, I agree. If I could drive up to the pump and fill her up with 120, I'd be all over it.
#69
04-12-2007, 01:58 PM
Originally Posted by Zippy
You would need some pretty serious octane to run my suburban setup.
That being said, I agree. If I could drive up to the pump and fill her up with 120, I'd be all over it.
That being said, I agree. If I could drive up to the pump and fill her up with 120, I'd be all over it.
Last edited by Divexxtreme; 04-12-2007 at 03:13 PM.
#71
04-12-2007, 03:09 PM
Originally Posted by ace996
CJV,
I have no doubt that youhave the ability to properly tune a TT without W/I. We've gone down this road before, and I have different opinions. There is no doubt that W/I, when properly tuned on a turbo motor, will make more power...and safer than if it wasn't employed. You state that you've "experimented" with it...which system? was it progressive? did you have control over spray? Pressure? Things have changed quite a bit in a few years. Perhaps you should look at Aquamist's new offerings, with the high-speed-valves...they act much like fuel-injectors and are much easier to control/tune. Surely your clients would appreciate another offering that would allow their engines to operate at safer levels with consistant performance from cooler intake temps?...and I don't mean on the street, I mean on the track...where heatsoak exists. We've seen 60-80degF drops from W/I over intercoolers alone!!!! It'd be nice to have the same power on a 110deg day as when it's 50degs...no???
The STIs, Evos, GNs, trucks, past F1 cars, EVERY WRC car for years, F/I Vettes, ect....all have shown phenomenal gains from W/I. The only reason why it hasn't shown to be a great addition to the P-car world is lack of experience with it.
If it's not your bag, fine...it's OK. But weight?...W/I too much weight??? Should someone be so serious to forego the 20-some-odd-lbs of a good W/I system, then I assume they don't have A/C or a radio on their car? Or front windshield wipers?...one can just use RainX. And then remove all carpet/insulation...ect. It doesn't weigh that much, which systems are you referring to ???
I'm waiting to see a tuner take a 996TT and properly run a W/I system on it. I've no doubt 5-10%...probably the higher side...increase in power and spool will be achieved, over what is possible without it. There is just so little actual experience with it here, I'm more than a little surprised...but then again only a few have actually had the ability to "tune" for it. That will soon change.
Shiv...you need to do some W/I testing!!!!
Perhaps then the voodo of it will be put to rest.
Be good,
TomK
I have no doubt that youhave the ability to properly tune a TT without W/I. We've gone down this road before, and I have different opinions. There is no doubt that W/I, when properly tuned on a turbo motor, will make more power...and safer than if it wasn't employed. You state that you've "experimented" with it...which system? was it progressive? did you have control over spray? Pressure? Things have changed quite a bit in a few years. Perhaps you should look at Aquamist's new offerings, with the high-speed-valves...they act much like fuel-injectors and are much easier to control/tune. Surely your clients would appreciate another offering that would allow their engines to operate at safer levels with consistant performance from cooler intake temps?...and I don't mean on the street, I mean on the track...where heatsoak exists. We've seen 60-80degF drops from W/I over intercoolers alone!!!! It'd be nice to have the same power on a 110deg day as when it's 50degs...no???
The STIs, Evos, GNs, trucks, past F1 cars, EVERY WRC car for years, F/I Vettes, ect....all have shown phenomenal gains from W/I. The only reason why it hasn't shown to be a great addition to the P-car world is lack of experience with it.
If it's not your bag, fine...it's OK. But weight?...W/I too much weight??? Should someone be so serious to forego the 20-some-odd-lbs of a good W/I system, then I assume they don't have A/C or a radio on their car? Or front windshield wipers?...one can just use RainX. And then remove all carpet/insulation...ect. It doesn't weigh that much, which systems are you referring to ???
I'm waiting to see a tuner take a 996TT and properly run a W/I system on it. I've no doubt 5-10%...probably the higher side...increase in power and spool will be achieved, over what is possible without it. There is just so little actual experience with it here, I'm more than a little surprised...but then again only a few have actually had the ability to "tune" for it. That will soon change.
Shiv...you need to do some W/I testing!!!!
Perhaps then the voodo of it will be put to rest.
Be good,
TomK
I do not have a single client. I am a private individual. I do not sell any parts or services unless it is a part that I replaced and no longer use.
It is my opinion there are only two things that make power ............ fuel and oxygen. Yes, the water injectors will help cheaper fuels from detonating. I am not against water injectors except for the weight (8 pounds per gallon and the transfer of this weight when g forces shift) and the volumn required.
Weight is a mortal enemy for our application. Especially in the front of the car. Instead we chose liquid CO2 in liquid jacketed intakes, more efficient IC's along with the IC's being coated to make them approximately 15% more efficient. Furthermore ceramic coating the combustion chambers and exhaust ports keep the head water temps 500-600 degrees cooler. Add wrapped cheaders and turbo's and our thermostatic motor fans is useless as it never comes on.
Now, for those that have followed what we have done they know we use nitrous which has a controller and pill box. It only takes a fifty shot to bring the turbo's on to full boost. Not much nitrous at all and not for very long. Our combustion chambers don't collect much carbon.I'm not saying we have the only solution or the cheapest. It's just in our application, the meth/water system doesn't really help us out. That doesn't mean it wouldn't be a good application for others.
#72
04-12-2007, 04:20 PM
Originally Posted by Divexxtreme
Personally, I'd rather just run better fuel.
And I don't know about you, but I'd rather pour in 1 gallon of meth/water every week into the windshield washer tank than fill-up with 100octane every time.
Really, it's for more than just making up for poor fuel. In time, it'll catch on.
Be good,
TomK
#73
04-12-2007, 04:22 PM
Originally Posted by ace996
And I don't know about you, but I'd rather pour in 1 gallon of meth/water every week into the windshield washer tank than fill-up with 100octane every time.
#74
04-12-2007, 04:49 PM
ace996, you keep mixing water & meth... water injection has never seemed that appealing considering the minimal gains. meth, however, is a different story.
while i would love to just fill up w/ race gas, it's just not practical. i normally drive longer ranges and it's impossible to plot a route that runs through 100 octane stations.
meth injection would be a killer app...
- chuck
while i would love to just fill up w/ race gas, it's just not practical. i normally drive longer ranges and it's impossible to plot a route that runs through 100 octane stations.
meth injection would be a killer app...
- chuck
#75
04-12-2007, 09:16 PM
Most of the problem is TUNING!!! Maybe Shiv can help in this regard. For what i understand, not everybody can tune the Motronics which is what handicaps many things... A stand alone unit will do (Motec).....but most guys want to Keep the stock ECU, No wireing issues.