Track Guys....Double Clutch??
#47
05-02-2007, 12:07 PM
Originally Posted by kiko
Dodge? What do you mean by formulas? Formulas here in Europe are single seaters but I believe we are talking different things here.
you can only skip clutch (acceptably) on straight teeth gearbox H-pattern but preferably squential.
On sequential you can do all upshifts 1 to 2, 2nd to 3rd, etc.
On H-pattern only the in-line upshifts engage smoothly like 1st to 2nd, 3rd to 4th and 5th to 6th. You can actually do this on your road car (w/ helical teeth) if you allow the revs to match.
you can only skip clutch (acceptably) on straight teeth gearbox H-pattern but preferably squential.
On sequential you can do all upshifts 1 to 2, 2nd to 3rd, etc.
On H-pattern only the in-line upshifts engage smoothly like 1st to 2nd, 3rd to 4th and 5th to 6th. You can actually do this on your road car (w/ helical teeth) if you allow the revs to match.
You can't even double clutch on sequential with straight cut gears, can you? I think the only time you use the clutch is when you single clutch heeltoe downshift.
Some of the members here seem to think that when it comes to downshifting it's either double declutching OR heeltoe-ing. You can combine those techniques into double clutch heel toe downshifts.
It's a good skill to learn regardless.
#48
05-02-2007, 12:12 PM
[quote=kiko]Dodge? What do you mean by formulas? Formulas here in Europe are single seaters but I believe we are talking different things here.
quote]
Here the Formula cars are also single seaters, it's a series called formula dodge, it's done through Skip Barber racing schools.
quote]
Here the Formula cars are also single seaters, it's a series called formula dodge, it's done through Skip Barber racing schools.
#49
05-02-2007, 12:41 PM
[quote=Hernando]
Yep. I raced in the Regional Skip Barber racing series then I bought a Formula Mazda to race SCCA and NASA.
Originally Posted by kiko
Dodge? What do you mean by formulas? Formulas here in Europe are single seaters but I believe we are talking different things here.
quote]
Here the Formula cars are also single seaters, it's a series called formula dodge, it's done through Skip Barber racing schools.
quote]
Here the Formula cars are also single seaters, it's a series called formula dodge, it's done through Skip Barber racing schools.
#50
05-02-2007, 12:49 PM
Originally Posted by kiko
Dodge? What do you mean by formulas? Formulas here in Europe are single seaters but I believe we are talking different things here.
you can only skip clutch (acceptably) on straight teeth gearbox H-pattern but preferably squential.
On sequential you can do all upshifts 1 to 2, 2nd to 3rd, etc.
On H-pattern only the in-line upshifts engage smoothly like 1st to 2nd, 3rd to 4th and 5th to 6th. You can actually do this on your road car (w/ helical teeth) if you allow the revs to match.
you can only skip clutch (acceptably) on straight teeth gearbox H-pattern but preferably squential.
On sequential you can do all upshifts 1 to 2, 2nd to 3rd, etc.
On H-pattern only the in-line upshifts engage smoothly like 1st to 2nd, 3rd to 4th and 5th to 6th. You can actually do this on your road car (w/ helical teeth) if you allow the revs to match.
There are Formula Dodge, Formula Dodge RTs, Formula Mazda, Formula Atlantic, Formula Ford, Formula 5000 and etc. Lots of Formula classes.
#51
05-02-2007, 12:51 PM
Originally Posted by Doug H
Haha. I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Why do you rev match going from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd? Technically, you would rev match when dropping into a lower gear so as not to create trailing throttle oversteer or unsettle and unbalance a car going into a turn.
There are Formula Dodge, Formula Dodge RTs, Formula Mazda, Formula Atlantic, Formula Ford, Formula 5000 and etc. Lots of Formula classes.
There are Formula Dodge, Formula Dodge RTs, Formula Mazda, Formula Atlantic, Formula Ford, Formula 5000 and etc. Lots of Formula classes.
@ miscommunication in this thread.Kiko is talking about upshifting WITHOUT using the clutch at all. Why he brought that up, I do not know.
#53
05-02-2007, 03:49 PM
Originally Posted by ShimShimHada
@ miscommunication in this thread.Kiko is talking about upshifting WITHOUT using the clutch at all. Why he brought that up, I do not know.
I brought that up as because I was amazed anyone on a Formula would Double Clutch and went even further saying that on Formula Ford and Palmer-Audi's we used to skip (not use) at all the clutch on upshifts.
All to say double clutching is pointless on modern syncro gearboxes specially under racing or lapping conditions.
#54
05-02-2007, 04:10 PM
Originally Posted by 996TT_STEVO
Hey twinkle toes, do you wear ballet shoes?
#55
05-02-2007, 04:47 PM
Originally Posted by L Gancho
You should learn about what's actually being talked about by other members on this thread... such as Dave H who seems to be the only PCA certified instructor responding. Stick with tiptronic... that seems to be your best option.
BTW, there's nothing to be discussed here unless you drive a 49' VW Bettle or a non synchro box and if thats the case it should be discussed somewhere else.
Chill out.
#57
05-02-2007, 05:21 PM
To sum up the manifold directions of this thread:
1. You don't derive any meaningful benefit from double clutching a downshift on a modern syncromesh gear box. Never the less, some find this technique aesthetically pleasing and use it anyway.
2. Most racing drivers don't use the clutch when upshifting a dog box (non-synchromesh) whether is is sequential or H-pattern.
3. Some racing drivers use the clutch on their downshifts with a dogbox. Many racing drivers (myself included) down shift a dogbox with out the clutch. I only use the clutch to take off from a dead stop.
4. Skippy school seems to be the only place that teaches double clutching a dogbox.
1. You don't derive any meaningful benefit from double clutching a downshift on a modern syncromesh gear box. Never the less, some find this technique aesthetically pleasing and use it anyway.
2. Most racing drivers don't use the clutch when upshifting a dog box (non-synchromesh) whether is is sequential or H-pattern.
3. Some racing drivers use the clutch on their downshifts with a dogbox. Many racing drivers (myself included) down shift a dogbox with out the clutch. I only use the clutch to take off from a dead stop.
4. Skippy school seems to be the only place that teaches double clutching a dogbox.
#58
05-02-2007, 05:28 PM
I have a bad habit of Double clutching I am trying to kick when on the track.
I did however get 80K miles on my 996 clutch, I think all the double clutching had somthing to do with it and I drove the **** out of that car.
I did however get 80K miles on my 996 clutch, I think all the double clutching had somthing to do with it and I drove the **** out of that car.
#59
05-02-2007, 05:47 PM
Originally Posted by prg
To sum up the manifold directions of this thread:
1. You don't derive any meaningful benefit from double clutching a downshift on a modern syncromesh gear box. Never the less, some find this technique aesthetically pleasing and use it anyway.
2. Most racing drivers don't use the clutch when upshifting a dog box (non-synchromesh) whether is is sequential or H-pattern.
3. Some racing drivers use the clutch on their downshifts with a dogbox. Many racing drivers (myself included) down shift a dogbox with out the clutch. I only use the clutch to take off from a dead stop.
4. Skippy school seems to be the only place that teaches double clutching a dogbox.
1. You don't derive any meaningful benefit from double clutching a downshift on a modern syncromesh gear box. Never the less, some find this technique aesthetically pleasing and use it anyway.
2. Most racing drivers don't use the clutch when upshifting a dog box (non-synchromesh) whether is is sequential or H-pattern.
3. Some racing drivers use the clutch on their downshifts with a dogbox. Many racing drivers (myself included) down shift a dogbox with out the clutch. I only use the clutch to take off from a dead stop.
4. Skippy school seems to be the only place that teaches double clutching a dogbox.
