Evoms vs. Proto
#61
06-11-2007, 11:28 PM
Originally Posted by WOODTSTER
Buddy,
I think exact costs are hard to determine by either source because it seems
like there are SO MANY options and variables not directly related to the motor build. When you start going that far you come across questions like
stock crank or not, GT3 cams or custom grind cams, etc. Then one starts
upgrading brakes, suspension componenents and before you know it you
are flat broke (oh, wait, maybe that is just me??).
It would be fun to make those choices though!!
I think exact costs are hard to determine by either source because it seems
like there are SO MANY options and variables not directly related to the motor build. When you start going that far you come across questions like
stock crank or not, GT3 cams or custom grind cams, etc. Then one starts
upgrading brakes, suspension componenents and before you know it you
are flat broke (oh, wait, maybe that is just me??).
It would be fun to make those choices though!!
#62
06-11-2007, 11:32 PM
Originally Posted by cjv
Buddy,
Hopefully before the end of the summer KA will be ready. Once ready I will be happy to ship her anywhere in the continental US (at my cost) for a track run(s). She will have all the safety equipment installed to make any multiple runs if required for whatever ET she attains.
Whatever happens ............ so be it.
Hopefully before the end of the summer KA will be ready. Once ready I will be happy to ship her anywhere in the continental US (at my cost) for a track run(s). She will have all the safety equipment installed to make any multiple runs if required for whatever ET she attains.
Whatever happens ............ so be it.
#63
06-11-2007, 11:34 PM
Originally Posted by MrBlonde
The real players in this drama are all cool with each other. The people who actually build, own and race the big dog cars are all decent peole who give credit where it's due.
The **** talkers are the hangers on. Hey **** talkers, **** off and devalue some other forum. :-)
The **** talkers are the hangers on. Hey **** talkers, **** off and devalue some other forum. :-)
#64
06-11-2007, 11:36 PM
Joe
How much more horsepower can EVOMS make by using the air intake plenium that goes behind the motor to feed the turbos? It would seem like they are getting to the edge? Or maybe I am wrong? When I look at the supras motors they have huge intakes.. much bigger than what we can put in the conventional way but the only other method is what Protomotive uses in which the put the tubing into the fenders? What do you think?
How much more horsepower can EVOMS make by using the air intake plenium that goes behind the motor to feed the turbos? It would seem like they are getting to the edge? Or maybe I am wrong? When I look at the supras motors they have huge intakes.. much bigger than what we can put in the conventional way but the only other method is what Protomotive uses in which the put the tubing into the fenders? What do you think?
#65
06-11-2007, 11:38 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Incline Village, NV
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Originally Posted by Dr_jitsu
EVO stage 1 through 4 are great packages that have been made available for almost everyone. They are reliable and for most people are available through a local tuner. For GT 700's and above, I would go with Protomotive
For making really big power (I consider stage 4 very fast, anything above is really big power in my book) there is really no comparison. Protomotive builds/tunes are custom (IE not canned) packages that make more power (of course usually cost more) and are more reliable. I personally know of several blown engines and a host of problems when you get beyond stage 4 in the EVO packages.
The sub 10 GT800 was a great achievment, but it doesn't quite hold up to the top custom builds (like Marks and Scotts") that proto has done. Sorry, but that is a fact. It was a purpose built drag car, not a customer DD. Also, it is one thing to have Todd Z hand tune a GT 800, but another when that tune is done remotely.
Again, I highly recommend EVO for stage 1-4, especially now that they have solved the MAF problems. I also give top marks to many of the EVO products, like their IC's. And many of the EVO guys are outstanding individuals, but ultimately I would want Todd K to tune my car.
I am now donning my flame suit.
For making really big power (I consider stage 4 very fast, anything above is really big power in my book) there is really no comparison. Protomotive builds/tunes are custom (IE not canned) packages that make more power (of course usually cost more) and are more reliable. I personally know of several blown engines and a host of problems when you get beyond stage 4 in the EVO packages.
The sub 10 GT800 was a great achievment, but it doesn't quite hold up to the top custom builds (like Marks and Scotts") that proto has done. Sorry, but that is a fact. It was a purpose built drag car, not a customer DD. Also, it is one thing to have Todd Z hand tune a GT 800, but another when that tune is done remotely.
Again, I highly recommend EVO for stage 1-4, especially now that they have solved the MAF problems. I also give top marks to many of the EVO products, like their IC's. And many of the EVO guys are outstanding individuals, but ultimately I would want Todd K to tune my car.
I am now donning my flame suit.
#67
06-12-2007, 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by cjv
Buddy,
Hopefully before the end of the summer KA will be ready. Once ready I will be happy to ship her anywhere in the continental US (at my cost) for a track run(s). She will have all the safety equipment installed to make any multiple runs if required for whatever ET she attains.
Whatever happens ............ so be it.
Hopefully before the end of the summer KA will be ready. Once ready I will be happy to ship her anywhere in the continental US (at my cost) for a track run(s). She will have all the safety equipment installed to make any multiple runs if required for whatever ET she attains.
Whatever happens ............ so be it.
#68
06-12-2007, 05:41 AM
Not yet a "real player"
Originally Posted by MrBlonde
The real players in this drama are all cool with each other. The people who actually build, own and race the big dog cars are all decent peole who give credit where it's due.
The **** talkers are the hangers on. Hey **** talkers, **** off and devalue some other forum. :-)
The **** talkers are the hangers on. Hey **** talkers, **** off and devalue some other forum. :-)
If you kick off all the "**** talkers" and then in fairness all the spruikers, this forum would be almost empty......
Now that would be no fun at all.
Not yet a "real player".
#69
06-12-2007, 06:10 AM
I've been happy w/ Protomotive and plan to stay w/ them.
If one is serious about tracking the car on a road course, smaller turbines will lower your lap times.
At mid ohio raceway this weekend I had get off the gas half way down the straights otherwise corner entrys were way too hot. Coming on boost strong in the middle of a corner makes for some challenging oversteer as well.
If one is serious about tracking the car on a road course, smaller turbines will lower your lap times.
At mid ohio raceway this weekend I had get off the gas half way down the straights otherwise corner entrys were way too hot. Coming on boost strong in the middle of a corner makes for some challenging oversteer as well.
#70
06-12-2007, 06:53 AM
Originally Posted by joetwint
Ah NOT!How about if I told you that that car has a 9.40 in it just as it sits.......and i could have drove that sucker home from the track and made some quick laps around a road course in it.Fact of the matter is put 500 lbs back in it and it will still trap 145 and run 9.90s at that track,on that night.Everything just came together from track prep to driver being on the money with the shifts and launch.Todd Z did an awesome job driving that car and part of it was knowing he had only a couple of passes to do it.He works good under pressure.
How much more horsepower can EVOMS make by using the air intake plenium that goes behind the motor to feed the turbos? It would seem like they are getting to the edge? Or maybe I am wrong? When I look at the supras motors they have huge intakes.. much bigger than what we can put in the conventional way but the only other method is what Protomotive uses in which the put the tubing into the fenders? What do you think?
#71
06-12-2007, 08:06 AM
Originally Posted by Acropora
I've been happy w/ Protomotive and plan to stay w/ them.
If one is serious about tracking the car on a road course, smaller turbines will lower your lap times.
At mid ohio raceway this weekend I had get off the gas half way down the straights otherwise corner entrys were way too hot. Coming on boost strong in the middle of a corner makes for some challenging oversteer as well.
If one is serious about tracking the car on a road course, smaller turbines will lower your lap times.
At mid ohio raceway this weekend I had get off the gas half way down the straights otherwise corner entrys were way too hot. Coming on boost strong in the middle of a corner makes for some challenging oversteer as well.
..
this is the first time since i joined this board that another member talked about what i learned from track days with my 996tt...
a stock 996tt with stock brakes is too heavy for most fast tracks..
as well as the 996 is engineered, the brakes can't handle the speed/weight after a few laps... at Road America, if driven hard, you would swear that the rotors were warped.. by the 2nd lap, the front tires/wheels felt like they were going to fall off !!
the car was slightly modded with wheels, tires, an exhaust and ecu remap..
it wasn't fun when everything heated up and there wasn't much my mechanic could do about it. Sol, from Perfect Power told me from the start that a street 996tt was not a good track day car (if driven hard) .. he was right and he should know as he has a real Porsche race shop near chicago that campaigns several cars..
i had fun but would have been better off with a race car.. (lighter)
#72
06-12-2007, 10:28 AM
Originally Posted by robmd99
Joe
How much more horsepower can EVOMS make by using the air intake plenium that goes behind the motor to feed the turbos? It would seem like they are getting to the edge? Or maybe I am wrong? When I look at the supras motors they have huge intakes.. much bigger than what we can put in the conventional way but the only other method is what Protomotive uses in which the put the tubing into the fenders? What do you think?
How much more horsepower can EVOMS make by using the air intake plenium that goes behind the motor to feed the turbos? It would seem like they are getting to the edge? Or maybe I am wrong? When I look at the supras motors they have huge intakes.. much bigger than what we can put in the conventional way but the only other method is what Protomotive uses in which the put the tubing into the fenders? What do you think?
There are a couple of cars running around in the 750-800rwhp range with that setup......I have it on my car and I don't think that is the limiting factor.The Proto and Evo are 2 different systems that deliver and measure the air in 2 different ways.....2 different philosophies.My car will easily pass a visual and emissions inspection that way with no problems.
#73
06-12-2007, 10:53 AM
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Michigan
Age: 54
Posts: 6,325
Rep Power: 333
Originally Posted by JR.
..
this is the first time since i joined this board that another member talked about what i learned from track days with my 996tt...
a stock 996tt with stock brakes is too heavy for most fast tracks..
as well as the 996 is engineered, the brakes can't handle the speed/weight after a few laps... at Road America, if driven hard, you would swear that the rotors were warped.. by the 2nd lap, the front tires/wheels felt like they were going to fall off !!
the car was slightly modded with wheels, tires, an exhaust and ecu remap..
it wasn't fun when everything heated up and there wasn't much my mechanic could do about it. Sol, from Perfect Power told me from the start that a street 996tt was not a good track day car (if driven hard) .. he was right and he should know as he has a real Porsche race shop near chicago that campaigns several cars..
i had fun but would have been better off with a race car.. (lighter)
this is the first time since i joined this board that another member talked about what i learned from track days with my 996tt...
a stock 996tt with stock brakes is too heavy for most fast tracks..
as well as the 996 is engineered, the brakes can't handle the speed/weight after a few laps... at Road America, if driven hard, you would swear that the rotors were warped.. by the 2nd lap, the front tires/wheels felt like they were going to fall off !!
the car was slightly modded with wheels, tires, an exhaust and ecu remap..
it wasn't fun when everything heated up and there wasn't much my mechanic could do about it. Sol, from Perfect Power told me from the start that a street 996tt was not a good track day car (if driven hard) .. he was right and he should know as he has a real Porsche race shop near chicago that campaigns several cars..
i had fun but would have been better off with a race car.. (lighter)
#74
06-12-2007, 11:38 AM
Originally Posted by buddyg
A properly modded tt on the right track can be very capable. I had no problems on a short track dusting a Noble which is very light and track ready.
my point was that a street car without brake mods and weight reduction ISN'T being all that it can be..
the difference between a Porsche race car and a Porsche street car at the track is HUGE.
my friend Sol, who "educated" me, has some very interesting Porsche race cars...
http://www.perfectpowerinc.com/gallery.html
check out his ex-Hurley Haywood Fabcar race car..
http://www.perfectpowerinc.com/sales...ned_autos.html
#75
06-12-2007, 11:50 AM
Originally Posted by joetwint
Rob,I don't understand what you are getting at! There are a couple of cars running around in the 750-800rwhp range with that setup......I have it on my car and I don't think that is the limiting factor.The Proto and Evo are 2 different systems that deliver and measure the air in 2 different ways.....2 different philosophies.My car will easily pass a visual and emissions inspection that way with no problems.
There are a couple of cars running around in the 750-800rwhp range with that setup......I have it on my car and I don't think that is the limiting factor.The Proto and Evo are 2 different systems that deliver and measure the air in 2 different ways.....2 different philosophies.My car will easily pass a visual and emissions inspection that way with no problems.