This thread is to provoke some thought and I wanted to share my thoughts.
Originally, over on Rennlist they started a 60-130mph thread as a way of
comparing similar cars (993TT vs 993TT with various mods) around the world.
This was/is a great way to compare mods, before and after and IF several
KEY FACTORS were the same, THEN you could compare the performance of
engine mods in car A, versus engine mods in car B.
ex) I had stock weight car with original seats, stock gearing (which almost
everyone has), and aftermarket exhuast (I have had 4 ), and PSI 480
kit. I ran several 60-130 mph runs and were all 10.96 to 11.1 seconds on
92 octane gas from my local gas station.
This would be a great time to compare to other cars having original K-16's
and an aftermarket exhuast and ECU upgrade.
As soon as someone pulls a few hundred pounds out of the car, you can no
longer tell how the motors compare because you have CHANGED a very important factor and it should be footnoted.

So, then came the 1/4 milers, many from the Supra crowd and other car makes where drag racing is more common. If quarter mile run is to compare the engine power of another car, you must have ALL OTHER factors equal, otherwise there are way to many OTHER factors involved.
WEIGHT is the number one thing that can make a big difference.
Example: EVOMS decimated the 1/4 mile record and it was a effing awesome
run!!!
Would anyone care to bet whether the EVOMS 9 second car has MORE POWER than Markski's ??? I would think not, Marks car has alot more power
but it's power curve, weight, and breakage of axle and clutch components
make it expensive and very tricky to launch.
NOTE: this is not an EVOMS vs PROTO thread, I am making a point of using
a test to compare the POWER of two cars where there are too many other factors involved.
NOW: what I would like to see is a shootout that does a couple of things to
REALLY test power to the ground.
0-1 mile is a fantatic test of sustained power and weight is less of a factor!

0-300 (186 mph) is a more difficult test to do but will have very dramatic results and things like the weight of the car is less critical (but aerodynamics
becomes more critical).

The 60-130 is still a great test and we all should continue to persue it with
a approved data device.

PS: I will be trying the 1/4 mile for fun (and frustration, I am sure)

Cheers,

Marty K.

 

The driver is never a factor?

 

The driver is a very small factor in 0-1 mile and 0-300 Kilometers.

The driver is a HUGE factor in a quarter mile run.

hence this very discussion and other good ways to compare similar cars
with various mods.

MK

 

Quarter Mile tests the setup of the car and it's ability to go from a dead stop. This is about driver, tire selection, suspension setup, clutch setup, weight, etc. You can set any car up to run a specific criteria, but building an all around car is quite a bit different (IE you could in theory gear a car for a 60-130 run, and vise versa for drag racing).

In a nutshell it's about both making power, and about putting that power to the ground by setting the car up properly.

 

Well said and I think that's what makes the 1/4 mile so valid... Not just making the power but harnessing it too

 

With any form of comparison, especially over the internet, all you can hope for is similar ballpark figures. There are way too may factors to definitively say one car is faster than another. I would venture to say if Marski had run at the same track that EVOMs ran, that 10.03 would have been nines, the tracks there are THAT good. He still wouldnt have been faster than Evoms but in the nines nonetheless and first in the turbo to do so.

But my point is, track conditions/uphill-downhill for 60-130, density altitude , small "discrepancies" in mods, people being honest about what on (or not on meaning weight) all play huge factors in these types of comparisons. So all we can hope for is somewhere around what cars would run same day same place. It still may be worthwhile but still a far cry from exact comparos.

 

The only way to truely compare these cars on an equal playing field is to have them run at the same track on the same day, around the same time, in the same lane. With entries from around the globe, this will obviously never happen, so all we can do is internet comparos.

 

Yes Joe, I agree, the comparisons are only "somewhat accurate"
do to the varied conditions. Very True!!

I have alot of respect for you guys running 10's at that crap track north of Scottsdale that you run on!!!



MK

 

All of the tests mentioned are a great way to have a general comparison between two cars. But as someone already mentioned the only way to really compare is head to head competition ( same track, same conditions, same day, same time) in whatever test you want to have.

That was the idea behind the first shootout and it seems about time for another one to be organized. It is amazing how far these cars have come since that first one.

 

i'd definately go to something like this..... it would be interesting to see another shootout happen...

 

So would I. Absolutely.

The Supra guys do something similar to it every year in Houston. The TX2KX Supra meet. I'd really love to see us do something like that as well.

 

OK but this time I am NOT organizing it! I did it twice already and look where that got me

 

The only way to compare is to have the cars together...... do 1/4 mile, 60 to 130, maybe a standing mile..... in my opinion, the car that wins will be the one that is built to be best all around.... But then this becomes another money endulging project...... To be the best you have to spend a lot of money.... a lot more then just on the Tuning.... we are talking about cluthes that cost in the upwards of $4500, Possibly better tranny or at least Diff., axles is no brainer...LOL, suspensions $6500 plus installs, lightweight seats,lightweight brakes- God I dont even want to guess, rims and tires .....
My point is.... to be competative.. you need another $30K.... so who wants to start first....
Oh, did I mention that things break and you need two sets of axles, clutches, Diffs, etc.... just in case..... it would be a shame for someone to travel 1500 miles only to find out that he fried his clutch at the starting line...
BTW, I'm not trying to sound cocky... but this is the hardcore truth...
Markski

 

I think you see the 1/4 mile times used as a performance benchmark since they are easy to legally obtain, at least in north america.

Where exactly are you supposed to do a 0-1 mile, 0-300km and 60-130mph testing without going to jail?

 

Anywhere in Mexico it seems...