Corner balancing is not going going to help the balance but CANNOT correct the huge deficit the front has from the rear. If you increase the bias, your car handles worse, corner balanced or not. Corner balance is not a cure all.



As for your other response, my only point in saying that was so it didnt turn into another accleration thread. Your first post here is a direct reflection of me not being able to keep anyone from posting here, no less a moderator, but you are again contaminating the thread with nonsense as you have no real info to add. I didnt tell anyone not to post here, just trying to set a direction for the thread, there are several threads with that in it. But I forgot some of you need a little more description to understand something.

 

Oh yes it can. Corner-balancing not only corrects weight deficits from side to side, it also corrects them from front to rear. My car went right back to stock specs (38/62) weight distribution after a corner-balance. So did my M3 after I removed 300 lbs from it. After a front camber adjustment, install of a GT3 rear sway and good front tires, I have now have zero understeer.

Since it's apparent that you (a "road-racer"...*cough*) don't understand what corner-balancing is; here's a primer that you can read at your leisure.
http://www.dietersmotorsports.com/te...nerbalance.htm

Correction; you contaminated your own thread right from the beginning with a bolded and exclamated rule that only those that track their cars are allowed to respond. I made it clear to you that that is not, and never will be, your call. Deal with it.

 

Well you have to realize even cup cars have issues. we try to get our cars to handle as best they can but they are far from the perfect track car.
Good coilovers with bump and rebound adjustments, good spring, camber plates ( I have over 3 degrees from and over 2 degrees rear of negative camber) and a stiff rear sway bar and proper ride height.
With that and a proper alignment and corner balance and that is about as good as it is going to get? If not I will cont to follow this thread to try to learn something, thanks for the interesting post.

 

Can you explain this to Scott. I know for a fact that nearly all the Cup Cars go to the track already C-Balanced, and the guys still come back talking of push, yet our street car, which is much LESS balanced, can be cured of the push plague by a corner balance, even after we have made the bias WORSE by taking more weight from the front of the car. That seems simple enough to understand to me.

 

LOL, you are missing my point. You had to get a corner balance just to correct the damage you did by removing the wieght and get back to STOCK BIAS (which is bad in case you didnt know). When was the last time you were on a road course testing the HANDLING limits of your car, you cant test that much on the street, PERIOD! I get zero understeer driving to a fro as well, and off camber decreasing radius turn at the track is a completely different story.


You are fighting a losing battle here scott, give it up.

 

Hmmm...so the weight distribution/stock bias of the GT3 and GT2 is bad? Amazingly, it's also 38/62.

Oh yes you can....

LOL...surprisingly, many people on this forum have already told me that exact same thing in regards to you. But out of politeness, I won't mention the other things that were said.

You might as well get used to it. Anytime you post BS (which seems to be most of the time), I'm going to call you on it.

 

#1 You removed AWD, did CB just to get back to stock specs. When stock specs plus CB gets you to something better.

#2 You still weigh well over 200 lbs more than a GT2 or GT3. That's why they handle better, not to mention the suspension differences, but that is another story.

#3 To get to the weight of the GT2,GT3 without cutting the car in peices and spending a fortune, you'll have to remove much of that weight from the front of the car. Your corner balance to get back to stock specs is now being taken back to even poorer proportion. A corner balance can only correct so much, I choose to keep my 71 lbs and use the weight loss elsewhere.

#4 You are right, you can test your suspension limits on the street, but not safely. And surely not doing 60-130's and street racing. Very complex response though, thanks .



Am I supposed to be ashamed of the imaginary people you continue thread after thread to say talk about me? If think your back is covered, you are mistaken. Besides, people that cant say what they have to face to face are cowards, most of the people here with REAL info dont follow that method.

 

Still not getting it I see.

When you remove weight from already well balanced car (as well balanced as rear-engine biased car can get), the goal is to get back the stock distribution when you are actually sitting in/driving the car. That's called "corner-balancing" (I'm still amazed that a road-racer such as yourself doesn't understand this).

So even though I now have 70 lbs less weight up front, you'd never know it via a weight distribution discrepancy. Same reason you don't know it on a GT2. After all the weight removal, Porsche balances the car out to 38/62 at the factory.

Heck, my custom exhaust and removal of my hydraulic wing motor (all from the rear) exceed the weight savings I got from my RWD conversion all by themselves. So actually, my overall weight loss is pretty damn balanced.

150 more over a GT2, actually (3,180 lbs vs 3,330 lbs...unladen). Negligible at best.

A corner balance corrects much more than you seem to think.

No much more to say. Plus, you've historically shown that you have a hard time with complex responses...so I'm trying to keep them as simple as I can.

I think it's pretty clear you don't care if you embarass yourself, Heavy. Therefore, I have no reason to believe that you'll ever be ashamed in doing so.

I guess the only problem is that you don't ever listen to anyone that has any REAL info. You argue with anyone and everyone that doesn't agree wth you. Not just me. Even if they provide proof...you dismiss it as not enough for you. You seem to only want to listen to yourself, which probably explains why you never seem to end up learning anything.

 

No acutally you can get better balance through corner balancing than stock, in case you didnt know, for most cars the goal is 50/50, but we dont really have a chance of getting that but we can get better than stock.


Wow, you seem to not understand the big pictures at all huh? Okay look at it this way, you have the front of the car and the back, you have x amount of lbs you can lose from either end. The weight lost at the rear is more beneficial because it allows you to obtain a BETTER weight distribution than stock( even before a CB). If you wish to keep the same distibution can do what you did and modify the exhaust/wing etc to balance out the weight of the front diff. The point is that in getting to GT2, GT3 spec weight (without cutting), there is much more room to lose the weight in the front of the car than the rear, in fact you have done just about everything sprung you can do in the rear (sub,rear seats, bumper supports) that can help with the distribution. You still have 200 more lbs to go (unless you weighed full tank, which I doubt), your car does not handle like a GT2, or GT3, I can promise you that, not possible with that much weight difference/ same weight balance, still inferior suspension geometry.











Ok I'm done with you. Post whatever you want where you want, but you'll be ignored by me. When you do some real trak driving instead of simulated street race driving get back to me. You come ranting in here when all I did was ask what all the RWD guys were doing about it and a CB is not enough, as you have shown you had to remove weight from the back of the car to balance it out.. How hard is that to see. Yet you and the groupies say that with LSD and the RWD conversion you essentially have a GT2. You are the one fouling people's minds, not me, I have made very few assertions, where as you have made many incomplete ones. So make sure you look in the mirror when you are searching for b.s.

 

Hey he guys...can we get back onto this interesting topic - please?

Okay ...hmmm what are some key elements we can remove weight from the back of the car...

How much weight would one have to add to the front to make the car more balance 50/50 or roughtly close... i'm going to play with this for awhile

 

Ways to correct push AFAIK...

1. Increase rear sways
2. Increase rear spring rates
3. Increase rear tire pressure
4. Increase shock valve firmness settings

and/or doing the exact opposite on the front end.

1. Decrease front sways
2. Decrease front spring rates
3. Decrease front tire pressure
4. Decrease front shock valve settings

Have you looked at front end pre-load? Lightening the front end will change the ride height of the front so maybe taking spares and stuff out at the track is not merely reducing weight, it's changing the ride height and therefore your front camber? Also, reducing weight will make the front end lift more on power as the rear squats so I would think that stiffer rear springs would be necessary to counteract a lighter front end.

 

Or are all the RWD guys too busy drag racing to consider handling??? Has anyone in a RWD turbo (not GT2) actually road coursed their turbo????

Again, just becasue some of us do not road course the turbos as much as others does not constitute an assertion that out cars are not capable of doing well on a road course.

Most of us have good suspension work, well set up.... ( not for road course in my situation due to the drag). I even went as far as installing solid subframe bushing along with billet upper ans lower controll arms... these are the same bushings installed on GT3 cup cars. A top notch company did the work... Im sure if I asked them to set up the car for Road America I would give a few race cars a run for their money...
I do not think you can have the best of both worlds without changing the geometry of the suspension... thus my car is set up go go straight as an arrow with least amount of drag.
markski

 

Heavychevy said:
"Or are all the RWD guys too busy drag racing to consider handling??? Has anyone in a RWD turbo (not GT2) actually road coursed their turbo????"

Again, just becasue some of us do not road course the turbos as much as others does not constitute an assertion that out cars are not capable of doing well on a road course.

Most of us have good suspension work, well set up.... ( not for road course in my situation due to the drag). I even went as far as installing solid subframe bushing along with billet upper ans lower controll arms... these are the same bushings installed on GT3 cup cars. A top notch company did the work... Im sure if I asked them to set up the car for Road America I would give a few race cars a run for their money...
I do not think you can have the best of both worlds without changing the geometry of the suspension... thus my car is set up go go straight as an arrow with least amount of drag.
markski[/QUOTE]

 

Marski, you are an exception with the amount of detail you have put into your car. I have to think everything that you have done to your car cant be beneficial to your cars applicationor reversed easily (as in change some settings and not parts) to apply for a road course scenario.

My point in saying that was to see if there were any RWD people who are more focused on Road Racing that Drag because they are totally different and require completely different approaches (like you said), you cant have the best of both worlds with many of the components that are being changed to make the car faster. I have yet to see one of the RWD people posting more about RR than DR, that's who I'm looking for, someone who has knowledge of what goes on in the car in these situation based on the changes made to the car so we get objective opinions on the effects.

When you get to certain power levels your car is no good for RR because even if you run low boost it's hard to keep your low boost from being too rich and the the high from being to lean when you have to dial it down 300 rwhp. Maybe it's easier in the TT but I know it was hard in my vette, making it essentially useless on the road course.

 

News flash!...Porsche 911's aren't trying to be 50/50. If you try and change the balance on a 911 towards 50/50, rather than the optimal 32/68...you are only asking for complications.


LOL...read my post above. You want to change the weight distribution to 50/50 on a 911.

I only want to keep the car at it's optimal factory settings (the same one the GT3, GT2 and 911TT's all come from the factory with)...but with some handling-improving tweaks. There will be no agreement from on this argument.

As far as how my car handles, you can't "promise me" anything. You've never driven it. Just like you've never driven a car that had a proper RWD conversion.

It's the same old story with you. You continue to preach in absolutes about things you know absolutely nothing about.

Sounds great. As long as you don't try to establish any more rules in your threads that other members of the forum are supposed to follow (like you did in this thread) I think that'll work just fine. Heck...I'd rather discuss cars with my 10 year old daughter anyway. She seems to have a better understanding of automotive physics than you do.