So how do you RWD guys fix the push issue????
#46
08-14-2007, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by f1crazydriver
Scott and Heavychevy, thanks for replies... i guess i'll stick to stock untill my warranty expires and then modify the suspension..but its good to know ahead of time on what to aim for and expect...
Here's a clip of how neutral my friends boxster is...this in a private road near my house...its dead in the other end so usually i drive up their slowly come back down, and hten head backup at full throttle knowing theirs no one in my way
my friend loves the way i can toss a car at the limit, he lend me his car for about 5 mins and this is what i was able to achieve with it in such short period of time...not bad..i want my tt to handle like this thats for sure
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tpkjNuFrFOw
Here's a clip of how neutral my friends boxster is...this in a private road near my house...its dead in the other end so usually i drive up their slowly come back down, and hten head backup at full throttle knowing theirs no one in my way
my friend loves the way i can toss a car at the limit, he lend me his car for about 5 mins and this is what i was able to achieve with it in such short period of time...not bad..i want my tt to handle like this thats for sure
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tpkjNuFrFOw
You cant see jack on that video!
I dont think your suspension will void anything. And surely not a sway bar, unless there is a failure in a suspension component that can be tied to the failure, and I havent heard of that happening on a TT.
#47
08-17-2007, 05:39 PM
Guys i think i came with the perfect solution with this car...i haven't driven it much since hmm late Feb because of issues with my DL ... so i have only driven the car from Jan-Feb...so about a good 60 days under my belt...anyways...today i wanted to go for a drive, and my neighboor which is agood friend of mine came along...i told him the issues of my understeer - which he agreed since he saw it alll at the track, so i decided to approach a diff technique and wow-- now the car is sooooo tail happy !! i''m loving this, i'll post video later on today!
#48
08-17-2007, 05:41 PM
Originally Posted by heavychevy
You cant see jack on that video!
I dont think your suspension will void anything. And surely not a sway bar, unless there is a failure in a suspension component that can be tied to the failure, and I havent heard of that happening on a TT.
I dont think your suspension will void anything. And surely not a sway bar, unless there is a failure in a suspension component that can be tied to the failure, and I havent heard of that happening on a TT.
wait towards the middle... the passanger was having a hard time staying straight you are a true road racer, listen to the throttle/scretching !
thats what tells u alot about the driver imo.....well regarding the suspension...eh don't want to take any risk, just 2 more years and i'll play with this baby alot
#49
08-17-2007, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by f1crazydriver
Guys i think i came with the perfect solution with this car...i haven't driven it much since hmm late Feb because of issues with my DL ... so i have only driven the car from Jan-Feb...so about a good 60 days under my belt...anyways...today i wanted to go for a drive, and my neighboor which is agood friend of mine came along...i told him the issues of my understeer - which he agreed since he saw it alll at the track, so i decided to approach a diff technique and wow-- now the car is sooooo tail happy !! i''m loving this, i'll post video later on today!
#50
08-18-2007, 12:09 AM
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A properly set up car will have very little to NO push . Be it RWD or AWD.
It boils down to the following
Chassis- Balance
Suspension
Tires
And who is setting it up.
For example our GT2 a very **** heavy car is very easy to drive at the limit. Very little push with a ton of feed back through the wheel. You know exactly what is going on when you are on it.
It boils down to the following
Chassis- Balance
Suspension
Tires
And who is setting it up.
For example our GT2 a very **** heavy car is very easy to drive at the limit. Very little push with a ton of feed back through the wheel. You know exactly what is going on when you are on it.
#51
08-18-2007, 01:04 AM
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Originally Posted by Fabryce@GMGRacing
A properly set up car will have very little to NO push . Be it RWD or AWD.
It boils down to the following
Chassis- Balance
Suspension
Tires
And who is setting it up.
For example our GT2 a very **** heavy car is very easy to drive at the limit. Very little push with a ton of feed back through the wheel. You know exactly what is going on when you are on it.
It boils down to the following
Chassis- Balance
Suspension
Tires
And who is setting it up.
For example our GT2 a very **** heavy car is very easy to drive at the limit. Very little push with a ton of feed back through the wheel. You know exactly what is going on when you are on it.
#52
08-19-2007, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by heavychevy
Elaborate on a proper setup, that term is vague, I'm sure all the "properly" setup cars are not exactly the same. There is no way to pinpoint what makes the difference and where with sych comments.
When I say a properly set up car I mean a car that is set up for the the driver and track conditions of that particular day or weekend.
There is no one proper set up that will fix the problem which may or may not be a problem to beging with.
We are constantly (every session) changing and adjusting the set up on the cars when we are at the track.
Each driver has different driving styles. Each car reacts differently to minor changes.,
But to answer your question can the car be set up to be nuetral - YES....
Can the car be set up to have almost 50/50 weight distributor - Yes.
Pro teams have been doing it for a long time now. Hope that helps and answers some questions.
#53
08-19-2007, 12:10 PM
I haven't read through the whole thread however I must say that I don't really see a complexity with the 2WD setup. Just like with any setup, be it 4WD or 2WD, you need to test and tune while driving and then on the bench step by step, one at a turn. I don't favour a neutral balance on my car, I set it up with slight oversteer, once I get the "feel" that I like and support it by lap times, I look at aerodynamic changes for final small tuning.
I do have snap oversteer (there's a video on UTube) but that has little to do with the setup or being 2WD, rather throttle application on exit while driving at the limit, and tire characteristics.
All what has been said about hardware changes and tuning is there of course and must be done, I can have my car setup from oversteer now to understeer like a pig in less than 20 minutes if needed. Not sure I am understanding the issue correctly? An LSD with 2WD will make it understeer more, and that can later be cured as well..
Heavy, sorry didn't get a chance to go through the files yet.
Jean
I do have snap oversteer (there's a video on UTube) but that has little to do with the setup or being 2WD, rather throttle application on exit while driving at the limit, and tire characteristics.
All what has been said about hardware changes and tuning is there of course and must be done, I can have my car setup from oversteer now to understeer like a pig in less than 20 minutes if needed. Not sure I am understanding the issue correctly? An LSD with 2WD will make it understeer more, and that can later be cured as well..
Heavy, sorry didn't get a chance to go through the files yet.
Jean
#54
08-19-2007, 12:20 PM
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Originally Posted by Fabryce@GMGRacing
When I say a properly set up car I mean a car that is set up for the the driver and track conditions of that particular day or weekend.
There is no one proper set up that will fix the problem which may or may not be a problem to beging with.
We are constantly (every session) changing and adjusting the set up on the cars when we are at the track.
Each driver has different driving styles. Each car reacts differently to minor changes.,
But to answer your question can the car be set up to be nuetral - YES....
Can the car be set up to have almost 50/50 weight distributor - Yes.
Pro teams have been doing it for a long time now. Hope that helps and answers some questions.
There is no one proper set up that will fix the problem which may or may not be a problem to beging with.
We are constantly (every session) changing and adjusting the set up on the cars when we are at the track.
Each driver has different driving styles. Each car reacts differently to minor changes.,
But to answer your question can the car be set up to be nuetral - YES....
Can the car be set up to have almost 50/50 weight distributor - Yes.
Pro teams have been doing it for a long time now. Hope that helps and answers some questions.
That makes sense, thanks for elaborating.
#55
08-19-2007, 12:28 PM
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: ga
Posts: 8,934
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Originally Posted by Jean
I haven't read through the whole thread however I must say that I don't really see a complexity with the 2WD setup. Just like with any setup, be it 4WD or 2WD, you need to test and tune while driving and then on the bench step by step, one at a turn. I don't favour a neutral balance on my car, I set it up with slight oversteer, once I get the "feel" that I like and support it by lap times, I look at aerodynamic changes for final small tuning.
I do have snap oversteer (there's a video on UTube) but that has little to do with the setup or being 2WD, rather throttle application on exit while driving at the limit, and tire characteristics.
All what has been said about hardware changes and tuning is there of course and must be done, I can have my car setup from oversteer now to understeer like a pig in less than 20 minutes if needed. Not sure I am understanding the issue correctly? An LSD with 2WD will make it understeer more, and that can later be cured as well..
Heavy, sorry didn't get a chance to go through the files yet.
Jean
I do have snap oversteer (there's a video on UTube) but that has little to do with the setup or being 2WD, rather throttle application on exit while driving at the limit, and tire characteristics.
All what has been said about hardware changes and tuning is there of course and must be done, I can have my car setup from oversteer now to understeer like a pig in less than 20 minutes if needed. Not sure I am understanding the issue correctly? An LSD with 2WD will make it understeer more, and that can later be cured as well..
Heavy, sorry didn't get a chance to go through the files yet.
Jean
#1 Elimiante the push issue
#2 Do #1 while still removing weight from the front of the car
#3 Do #'s 1 and 2 while getting down to GT2/GT3 weight without making it more difficult considering there is more room for weight to be lost in the front of the car.
The weight is needed over the front tires, I have known that some race teams use ballasts in P cars to get weight over the front tires. I think you would have to use them to get a TT anywhere near 50/50. Some other people had noticed the changes in the car from just having full tank of gas to 1/4 tank and the car changed quite a bit, so the let's just go rip out all the weight we can get's more complicated.
The corner balance can only make uo for so much weight discrepancy between front and back, you also have to worry about tire wear, individual wheel suspension settings etc etc. So its not as easy as people make it seem.
I just wanted a more detailed discussion on handling, the title was more for fun.
#56
08-19-2007, 10:32 PM
Originally Posted by Fabryce@GMGRacing
When I say a properly set up car I mean a car that is set up for the the driver and track conditions of that particular day or weekend.
There is no one proper set up that will fix the problem which may or may not be a problem to beging with.
We are constantly (every session) changing and adjusting the set up on the cars when we are at the track.
Each driver has different driving styles. Each car reacts differently to minor changes.,
But to answer your question can the car be set up to be nuetral - YES....
Can the car be set up to have almost 50/50 weight distributor - Yes.
Pro teams have been doing it for a long time now. Hope that helps and answers some questions.
There is no one proper set up that will fix the problem which may or may not be a problem to beging with.
We are constantly (every session) changing and adjusting the set up on the cars when we are at the track.
Each driver has different driving styles. Each car reacts differently to minor changes.,
But to answer your question can the car be set up to be nuetral - YES....
Can the car be set up to have almost 50/50 weight distributor - Yes.
Pro teams have been doing it for a long time now. Hope that helps and answers some questions.
Sounds like 50/50 distribution is ideal for road racing..... it also sounds like you don't want to give up the secrets on how to accomplish it.
Reminds me of being at the track and taking photos of race car engines.... but not being allowed to take photos of under the car..... because thats where the "secret" stuff is.(suspension set ups).
Scott..... it sucks to read every one of your posts is very argumentitive... and also every post of yours is about your car. This thread is about fixing "push" not about how your car is or isnt set up...or whether you "could" road race it or not.
#57
08-19-2007, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by phillym5
Sounds like 50/50 distribution is ideal for road racing..... it also sounds like you don't want to give up the secrets on how to accomplish it.
Reminds me of being at the track and taking photos of race car engines.... but not being allowed to take photos of under the car..... because thats where the "secret" stuff is.(suspension set ups).
Scott..... it sucks to read every one of your posts is very argumentitive... and also every post of yours is about your car. This thread is about fixing "push" not about how your car is or isnt set up...or whether you "could" road race it or not.
Reminds me of being at the track and taking photos of race car engines.... but not being allowed to take photos of under the car..... because thats where the "secret" stuff is.(suspension set ups).
Scott..... it sucks to read every one of your posts is very argumentitive... and also every post of yours is about your car. This thread is about fixing "push" not about how your car is or isnt set up...or whether you "could" road race it or not.
LMAO
Its not that I dont want to give it up. But you know how race car guys are.
Teams spend a lot of money on engineering and what works for them.
But we do support "customer" cars
And if we are at the track we will always help with friendly advice.. And at least get you going in the right direction.
LOL when was the last time you were able to get up close and personal with a F1 car. LOL You would probably be taken out back by the team and whacked lol if you saw to much or took pictures of the wrong things
In all seriousness though, "set up" will depend on the things I mentioned in my post originally.
Ideally 50/50 weight distribution is what you want in a road race situation. From a drivers perspective that makes a car very easy to drive at the limit.
#58
08-19-2007, 11:31 PM
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: ga
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Originally Posted by Fabryce@GMGRacing
LMAO
Its not that I dont want to give it up. But you know how race car guys are.
Teams spend a lot of money on engineering and what works for them.
But we do support "customer" cars
And if we are at the track we will always help with friendly advice.. And at least get you going in the right direction.
LOL when was the last time you were able to get up close and personal with a F1 car. LOL You would probably be taken out back by the team and whacked lol if you saw to much or took pictures of the wrong things
In all seriousness though, "set up" will depend on the things I mentioned in my post originally.
Ideally 50/50 weight distribution is what you want in a road race situation. From a drivers perspective that makes a car very easy to drive at the limit.
Its not that I dont want to give it up. But you know how race car guys are.
Teams spend a lot of money on engineering and what works for them.
But we do support "customer" cars
And if we are at the track we will always help with friendly advice.. And at least get you going in the right direction.
LOL when was the last time you were able to get up close and personal with a F1 car. LOL You would probably be taken out back by the team and whacked lol if you saw to much or took pictures of the wrong things
In all seriousness though, "set up" will depend on the things I mentioned in my post originally.
Ideally 50/50 weight distribution is what you want in a road race situation. From a drivers perspective that makes a car very easy to drive at the limit.
If you can get to 50/50 without ballasts or something crazy, I'll be bringing my car by if and when I make it from ATL to CALI.
Hey, BTW, are both your cars banned from the Time Attack this year? If not, are you still going?
#59
08-20-2007, 12:20 AM
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didnt read the thread but softer front spring or speed up your compression ans stiffen everything in the rear. ive never driven a cup car but all other 911's are unbalanced. oh yeah cant you remove the rear bumper strut and save 80lbs.
#60
08-20-2007, 06:25 AM
Originally Posted by phillym5
Scott..... it sucks to read every one of your posts is very argumentitive... and also every post of yours is about your car. This thread is about fixing "push" not about how your car is or isnt set up...or whether you "could" road race it or not.
Second, since it looks like you missed it; the title of this thread is; "So how do you RWD guys fix the push issue????". Amazingly, my car is RWD...AND I fixed the push issue. I guess my car has nothing to do with this thread at all. LOL...
Third, I'm not going to pretend to agree with things that I don't agree with, just to make you or anyone else happy. That ain't me. Never has been, never will be. Sorry.
Fourth, since it's blatently clear that you don't like reading my posts...and since my posts have nothing to do with you and never will....follow the below instructions to make your time on this forum more enjoyable.
-Click on my name in this post.
-Click "View public profile".
-Click "Add Divextreme to your ignore list".
Simple.
Last edited by Divexxtreme; 08-20-2007 at 06:47 AM.