Lowering a 996 without paying a ton of $$?
#46
08-20-2008, 09:50 AM
http://www.pca.org/panorama/sample_article_3.html
http://www.pca.org/panorama/article_...Tables9-11.pdf
HC
Last edited by The Dark Knight; 08-20-2008 at 10:10 AM.
#47
08-20-2008, 09:56 AM
Thanks ETWD. I wil try to get them before the install. Based on the Rennlist and PCA/Panorama articles about the MO30s/Eibach or H&R/ Sway Bar upgrade , I will correct the stance and understeer without dropping between $2500-$3500 right now going the coilover route.
http://www.pca.org/panorama/sample_article_3.html
http://www.pca.org/panorama/article_...Tables9-11.pdf
HC
http://www.pca.org/panorama/sample_article_3.html
http://www.pca.org/panorama/article_...Tables9-11.pdf
HC
#48
08-20-2008, 10:10 AM
Dominick, that's exactly the conclusion I came to.
I also added the sideskirts this spring - elected not to go with the full aerokit.
Before and after pics attached.
#49
08-20-2008, 10:22 AM
I'm with the majority on this. Just using springs to lower the car is not the way to go and will cost you money in the long run, I know this from experience...
I bought my '02 with 21k on the clock, the previous owner had put Techart springs on to lower the car but never changed the original dampers. Granted the ride was better than stock, more planted but this was a short term fix. He obviously never really drove it properly
Anyway, after a trip through France and into Spain, through some very twisty and fast roads, the suspension just gave up. The increased stress turned my once smooth Carrera into a creaking old ship. This has ended up costing me, alot! New topmounts, new control arms, new suspension... Now I bit the bullet and shelled out for a completely new and uprated spec but if the previous owner had done it right the first time I wouldn't be so out of pocket now.
The moral is, buy cheap, buy twice...
Oh, and KWv3s get my vote but then I'm biased...
I bought my '02 with 21k on the clock, the previous owner had put Techart springs on to lower the car but never changed the original dampers. Granted the ride was better than stock, more planted but this was a short term fix. He obviously never really drove it properly
Anyway, after a trip through France and into Spain, through some very twisty and fast roads, the suspension just gave up. The increased stress turned my once smooth Carrera into a creaking old ship. This has ended up costing me, alot! New topmounts, new control arms, new suspension... Now I bit the bullet and shelled out for a completely new and uprated spec but if the previous owner had done it right the first time I wouldn't be so out of pocket now.
The moral is, buy cheap, buy twice...
Oh, and KWv3s get my vote but then I'm biased...
#50
08-21-2008, 03:27 PM
PSS9's are on my shortlist too -- and thanks for all the great info.
BUT no one has mentioned the PSS10 vs the PSS9s. (I know that they have one more setting but there are still good deals on PSS9s now that make it favorable.)
Anyone recommend the PSS10s for a daily driver with a bit of autox and DEs?
BUT no one has mentioned the PSS10 vs the PSS9s. (I know that they have one more setting but there are still good deals on PSS9s now that make it favorable.)
Anyone recommend the PSS10s for a daily driver with a bit of autox and DEs?
#51
08-21-2008, 03:57 PM
PSS9 on 2002 996: Required parts & total cost?
I'll toss in my $.02 here, a little lengthy ... apologies. I have an '02 Targa, 6-spd with about 18,000 miles on it.
...
After months of tooing and frowing (?) this spring I elected to go with the PSS9s (got a set shipped into Canada at a great price from Dan at Vivid, thanks Dan!) ... I know there are plenty of other coilover systems, but I don't really track my car. I also picked up a new set of X74 sways from another Rennlister at a great price and I added spacers (H&R 7s & 15s)
Here in Toronto, Courtney at Autowerks set up the car for me... fantastic job. The 9's are set at 3 & 5 and the car has about an 1" of clearance from the wheels.
...
I would summarize my experience this way .... I went with theses mods with the objective of lowering the car, avoiding the disappointment of a harsh ride and protecting myself from unnecessary costs. Today, in hindsight I would do it for the improvement in the way the car handles... Pete
...
After months of tooing and frowing (?) this spring I elected to go with the PSS9s (got a set shipped into Canada at a great price from Dan at Vivid, thanks Dan!) ... I know there are plenty of other coilover systems, but I don't really track my car. I also picked up a new set of X74 sways from another Rennlister at a great price and I added spacers (H&R 7s & 15s)
Here in Toronto, Courtney at Autowerks set up the car for me... fantastic job. The 9's are set at 3 & 5 and the car has about an 1" of clearance from the wheels.
...
I would summarize my experience this way .... I went with theses mods with the objective of lowering the car, avoiding the disappointment of a harsh ride and protecting myself from unnecessary costs. Today, in hindsight I would do it for the improvement in the way the car handles... Pete
I have the same goals (reduce gap, improve handling a bit -- but its a daily driver with a few DE and autox events).
Could you list the cost: labour & parts, and mandatory additional parts (i.e. if new sways are required).
Thanks in advance!
#52
08-21-2008, 05:43 PM
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Bentlink- PSS10 has 10 settings, PSS9 has 9 settings. that's it.. big deal.
If you are going to any sort of track events and like to flex your car, you'll greatly benefit from purchasing KWv3 coilovers. You won't hear a single solitary complaint from any KW owner, either for DD or track use. They are more complexly made than Bilstein, more adjustable and using them on the track won't void the warranty. They also never corrode or rust.
They don't cost much more than PSS10 but will give you alot of added benefit. Look in the GB section for discount.
If you are going to any sort of track events and like to flex your car, you'll greatly benefit from purchasing KWv3 coilovers. You won't hear a single solitary complaint from any KW owner, either for DD or track use. They are more complexly made than Bilstein, more adjustable and using them on the track won't void the warranty. They also never corrode or rust.
They don't cost much more than PSS10 but will give you alot of added benefit. Look in the GB section for discount.
#54
08-22-2008, 07:16 AM
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^ I've never owned JIC so not sure, but they seem to be a popular choice. One thing I do know is the KW's use a stainless steel body and progressive rate springs, plus an outboard reservoir. JIC's use linear springs. Progressive springs tend to provide a smoother ride.
#55
08-22-2008, 09:17 AM
Pete, thanks for great info. (I too am in Canada -- West Coast though.)
I have the same goals (reduce gap, improve handling a bit -- but its a daily driver with a few DE and autox events).
Could you list the cost: labour & parts, and mandatory additional parts (i.e. if new sways are required).
Thanks in advance!
I have the same goals (reduce gap, improve handling a bit -- but its a daily driver with a few DE and autox events).
Could you list the cost: labour & parts, and mandatory additional parts (i.e. if new sways are required).
Thanks in advance!
You can pick up the PSS9s for a great price from different suppliers in the States probably for around $1800. I used Dan at Vivid ... he was great getting them into Canada. The PSS10s at this point are likely in the $2,300 range. Like pOrsh3 says, there are more track-oriented coilovers out there, but for my purposes the 9s were perfect ... they are actually smoother than stock so you'll be fine as a DD. You have to be careful how much you lower your car though depending on the roads out your way - minimum it will be lowered with the 9s is 1" I believe.
You don't need to go with sways necessarily, but they will help. I picked up sways virtually new from a fellow Rennlister ... if you keep an eye you'll likely be able to find a used set as well - depending on which type and assuming you go front and back, probably for $200 - $600 including drop links if necessary. Mine are the X74s off the Porsche track suspension set-up for the n/b 996. For the C4S (w/b) I think they are the X73s. Popular choices are the GT3 sways with drop links or the H&R's which I believe bolt straight on like my X74s did. Tire Rack carries the H&Rs new - you can check their website for pricing. GT3 and H&R sways are both adjustable I believe, the X74/X73s are not.
My total install cost for the coilovers and sways plus alignment was a little less than $1,000 (+ tax) ... but you'll likely find different pricing depending where you are. The $1,000 - $1,100 range is common for Toronto to do all of that.
Good luck with the mods ... the suspension upgrade makes an amazing difference in the way the car handles.
#56
08-22-2008, 09:50 AM
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^ yup, all good info. The PSS series will be a vast improvement over stock.
Please keep in mind though, for $100 more vs. PSS10 the KWv3's are superior in every aspect both on and off the track. -and 1 click of the bump setting or separate rebound setting makes a noted difference, whereas not much diff with the PSS series. The KW's also have a separate factory-set high-speed bump valve, which means you can run a stiff suspension but not loose your teeth on bumpy streets.
Please keep in mind though, for $100 more vs. PSS10 the KWv3's are superior in every aspect both on and off the track. -and 1 click of the bump setting or separate rebound setting makes a noted difference, whereas not much diff with the PSS series. The KW's also have a separate factory-set high-speed bump valve, which means you can run a stiff suspension but not loose your teeth on bumpy streets.
#57
08-22-2008, 11:01 AM
^ yup, all good info. The PSS series will be a vast improvement over stock.
Please keep in mind though, for $100 more vs. PSS10 the KWv3's are superior in every aspect both on and off the track. -and 1 click of the bump setting or separate rebound setting makes a noted difference, whereas not much diff with the PSS series. The KW's also have a separate factory-set high-speed bump valve, which means you can run a stiff suspension but not loose your teeth on bumpy streets.
Please keep in mind though, for $100 more vs. PSS10 the KWv3's are superior in every aspect both on and off the track. -and 1 click of the bump setting or separate rebound setting makes a noted difference, whereas not much diff with the PSS series. The KW's also have a separate factory-set high-speed bump valve, which means you can run a stiff suspension but not loose your teeth on bumpy streets.
Cheers
#58
08-22-2008, 12:03 PM
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Location: VANCOUVER, BC, CANADA
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hi all,
well i have the X74 suspension... I LOVE IT... and no it is not to stiffly sprung for my taste. and i dont think it is a very low setup... i havent bottomed out yet... but i did get the skid plate just in case!
it handles awesome at the track (road course and autoX) and very complient on the street. yes it may be a little harsh for some because you do feel every bump...but its not as stiff as a GT3.
as far as the sways... sway bars themselves are not adjustable, but by adding a set of adjustable drop links this problem is solved. on the other hand, unless you are a serious tracker..when will you be adjusting your sways? how many people actualy know how adjusting sways will affect your ride? same with respect to adjust shock damping settings
this setup is perfect for me now, because, even though i do know how changing these setting will affect my car... i really dont have time to mess with it.
Rod
well i have the X74 suspension... I LOVE IT... and no it is not to stiffly sprung for my taste. and i dont think it is a very low setup... i havent bottomed out yet... but i did get the skid plate just in case!
it handles awesome at the track (road course and autoX) and very complient on the street. yes it may be a little harsh for some because you do feel every bump...but its not as stiff as a GT3.
as far as the sways... sway bars themselves are not adjustable, but by adding a set of adjustable drop links this problem is solved. on the other hand, unless you are a serious tracker..when will you be adjusting your sways? how many people actualy know how adjusting sways will affect your ride? same with respect to adjust shock damping settings
this setup is perfect for me now, because, even though i do know how changing these setting will affect my car... i really dont have time to mess with it.
Rod
#59
08-22-2008, 06:34 PM
Hey Bentlink ... Kelowna is a great spot. Usually get out your way once a year to ski Silver Star / Big White - great terrain and fantastic snow! Gotta get there in the summer though to golf Predator Ridge!
You can pick up the PSS9s for a great price from different suppliers in the States probably for around $1800. I used Dan at Vivid ... he was great getting them into Canada. The PSS10s at this point are likely in the $2,300 range. Like pOrsh3 says, there are more track-oriented coilovers out there, but for my purposes the 9s were perfect ... they are actually smoother than stock so you'll be fine as a DD. You have to be careful how much you lower your car though depending on the roads out your way - minimum it will be lowered with the 9s is 1" I believe.
You don't need to go with sways necessarily, but they will help.
...
My total install cost for the coilovers and sways plus alignment was a little less than $1,000 (+ tax) ...
You can pick up the PSS9s for a great price from different suppliers in the States probably for around $1800. I used Dan at Vivid ... he was great getting them into Canada. The PSS10s at this point are likely in the $2,300 range. Like pOrsh3 says, there are more track-oriented coilovers out there, but for my purposes the 9s were perfect ... they are actually smoother than stock so you'll be fine as a DD. You have to be careful how much you lower your car though depending on the roads out your way - minimum it will be lowered with the 9s is 1" I believe.
You don't need to go with sways necessarily, but they will help.
...
My total install cost for the coilovers and sways plus alignment was a little less than $1,000 (+ tax) ...
Yes, Predator Ridge is beautiful. In fact I was just there two weeks ago: I often drive up the West side of the Lake and then stop there on my way back to Kelowna. Beautiful hilly, twisty roads and fairly quiet (for being close to Kelowna) -- the club house at Predator has nice quality food and the view is panoramic over the course.
If you are out this way give me a shout. Cheers.
Cheers, Duane
