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Considering a high mileage (106,000) 02' C2.

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  #16  
Old 03-03-2008 | 08:41 AM
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I took my wife to look at it with me.

She really liked the color combination and thought the car was in really good condition. I agree that it is an emotional decision and that sometimes your brain does not work right in these situations. I know that I will enjoy the car, and I know that it has been taken care of. I also know that alot of the factory options do not get factored in with NADA values, etc, but they do make the car much nicer to own. I would like to know where these low$20k cars are. I searched both Cars.com and Autotrader over the entire US and did not find one 2002 996 anywhere near the low $20k mark regardless of the miles. If the car has a clean title and is in decent shape, I am finding it hard to find one listed below $30k. I know that some of these deals might be negotiable, but not by $8-10k. Someone show me a low $20k 2002 and I will use that in my negotiations. It is hard to use that if I cannot find any evidence that that is what this car should sell for.

Thanks,
Pat
 
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Old 03-03-2008 | 08:46 AM
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I understand what you are saying.

Originally Posted by glowone
The answer is simple....NO!

Buy a lower milage car. Garage queen if possible. Youll save money through less repair and better resale.

Low milage garage queen are the target!
The car that you are talking about is easily $10k more than the one I am looking at and does not have some of the options/upgrades that I would likely want to make. I am truly torn on this one because I happen to be from the school of thought that most Porsche cars operate better and are more reliable the more they are driven. I know that this is an extreme example of being driven, but I might be slightly more afraid of a 4k mile car that the seller wanted $50k for. I think that long term I would spend less on the 100k mile car. I appreciate all the feedback and am just trying to wiegh all options before I make the decision.

Thanks,
Pat
 
  #18  
Old 03-03-2008 | 09:57 AM
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I would agree with you that the cars that are driven are better than garage queens.... these cars need to run... not sit around...

what are the leak down numbers... ? did your indy get them?

with PSS9's and lightweight flywheel the car is definitely being tracked.... take it to porsche and plug into the computer to see if any type 2 overevs have ever taken place... metadata from the computer is invaluable....

and if he doesn't want to take it to porsche with you you know something is up..

how many stone chips are in the front hood... you mentioned that it looked like a 20K mile car... are you sure the front has never been resprayed...?
 
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Old 03-03-2008 | 10:17 AM
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Waiting on leak down numbers.

Originally Posted by C70Pete
I would agree with you that the cars that are driven are better than garage queens.... these cars need to run... not sit around...

what are the leak down numbers... ? did your indy get them?

with PSS9's and lightweight flywheel the car is definitely being tracked.... take it to porsche and plug into the computer to see if any type 2 overevs have ever taken place... metadata from the computer is invaluable....

and if he doesn't want to take it to porsche with you you know something is up..

how many stone chips are in the front hood... you mentioned that it looked like a 20K mile car... are you sure the front has never been resprayed...?
I should be getting the leak down numbers this week when the indy checks it out. I did check the Type 1 and Type 2 ignitions with a Durametric. The type 1 I am not worried about as the rev limiter is there for that reason. It did show 15 Type 2 ignitions. Does that mean 15 times, or 15 actual spark plug firings? If it is firings, then that was just a fraction of a second. The car runs fine and I would think that a leak down would show any damage that those Range 2 ignitions might have done. Would you agree?

Thanks,
Pat
 
  #20  
Old 03-03-2008 | 10:41 AM
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The main thing with that many miles is that you're ostensibly "stuck" with the car if you buy it. It'll be a tough sell if/when you decide to get rid of it. With all of the low miles great deals out there i'd still keep looking until you find what you want at a good price, rather than "settling" as there's no shortage of inventory.


Originally Posted by PJF
I went to look at it again on Saturday and the previous owner has put $10k in the car in the past year. Everything from brand new Porsche factory battery, 6 new coil packs, the PSS9s, the Sachs clutch and lightweight flywheel, new tires, new windshield, RMS repair and all other services that needed done. He will give me a great trade in on my car (almost what I could sell it for outright), but the lowest I can get him to go is about $28,000. What does everybody think? The car drove amazingly well and was extremely tight for the miles. Again, I would place the overall car as a 9 out of 10 in both appearance and drive. The car looks and feels like a 30k mile car. I really like the car and the private party value lines up with what they are asking. I have just seen so many posts like the ones above that say I should be buying the car in the low $20s that I am confused. I have not seen any really nice 996 cars in the low $20s even for MY99 cars with 50-60k miles. I would think a MY02 with the condition and upkeep this one has had would be at least as valuable as a MY 99 with 60k miles. This cars original window sticker was in the glove box and it stickered at $94k new to give you an idea of the options on this car. I am really torn about whether to buy this car at $28k with the feedback that I have gotten so far. Please let me know what you think.

Thanks,
Pat
 
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Old 03-03-2008 | 10:48 AM
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If you are thinking about resale value, I would say no. With this many miles on the odo it means that you are not looking to get a garage queen or re-coup your money after a couple of years. Get it and drive the hell out of her! That car was only driven 21K miles a year.
 
  #22  
Old 03-03-2008 | 12:15 PM
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That is the plan. With wanting to do track events, this car with the mods and miles almost makes more sense to me than a lower mileage garage queen. I certainly do not have to worry about putting too many miles on it! I am going to chizel away at the seller a bit more, but I think if the leak down checks out and the deal is between $27k-$28k, then I am going forward. I would still love to see links to MY02 cars selling in the low $20k range. I have looked and they are nowhere to be found.
 
  #23  
Old 03-03-2008 | 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by PJF
I should be getting the leak down numbers this week when the indy checks it out. I did check the Type 1 and Type 2 ignitions with a Durametric. The type 1 I am not worried about as the rev limiter is there for that reason. It did show 15 Type 2 ignitions. Does that mean 15 times, or 15 actual spark plug firings? If it is firings, then that was just a fraction of a second. The car runs fine and I would think that a leak down would show any damage that those Range 2 ignitions might have done. Would you agree?

Thanks,
Pat
I really can't comment on the technical details as I'm not a qualified porsche mechanic... time to visit your indy... I don't know what a type 2 ignition is... I was referring to a type 2 over rev... probably a lot more serious..
 
  #24  
Old 03-03-2008 | 09:42 PM
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obviously if they are giving you top $$ for the trade, it is just as good as taking that from the sale price of the Porsche. Most dealers give $2K below KBB retail for a trade. If you are getting more than this it's a bonus as far as trade ins go. Take those additional $$ and apply them to the sale price and see if it feels better.
 
  #25  
Old 03-03-2008 | 10:01 PM
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[quote=PJF;1711317]I should be getting the leak down numbers this week when the indy checks it out. I did check the Type 1 and Type 2 ignitions with a Durametric. The type 1 I am not worried about as the rev limiter is there for that reason. It did show 15 Type 2 ignitions. Does that mean 15 times, or 15 actual spark plug firings?


Wow, 15, type 2 Overrevs?!?! From my understanding that can only occur by missing a downshift and it is REALLY bad. Can someone esle comment on this. I'd like to know the answer too.
 
  #26  
Old 03-03-2008 | 11:20 PM
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I checked with Durametric for the answer to this.That 15 actually means that the car had 15 individual cylinder ignitions over the redline. They said that this must have been barely over as at 7500 rpms you have 125 ignitions every second. The 15 would indicate that the car was in a downshifted over rev situation for a total of about 1/8th of a second over the cars entire life. He said that he would not even worry about it as any major over-rev would have registered several hundred ignitions at least. He said that he knows 996 turbos with 60,000 Range 2 ignitions and they are still fine. Granted, that is a different motor, but that made me feel better.
 
  #27  
Old 03-04-2008 | 01:04 AM
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Sounds like the car is in great condition, but 106k is alot of mileage on a Porsche. Even if the engine has been perfectly maintained, it probably only has another 25k miles left on it. Try and find someone that can do a complete tear down/rebuild for a reasonable price, I don't believe that these motors can't be rebuilt.
 
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Old 03-04-2008 | 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by PJF
I checked with Durametric for the answer to this.That 15 actually means that the car had 15 individual cylinder ignitions over the redline. They said that this must have been barely over as at 7500 rpms you have 125 ignitions every second. The 15 would indicate that the car was in a downshifted over rev situation for a total of about 1/8th of a second over the cars entire life. He said that he would not even worry about it as any major over-rev would have registered several hundred ignitions at least. He said that he knows 996 turbos with 60,000 Range 2 ignitions and they are still fine. Granted, that is a different motor, but that made me feel better.

Anyone else chime in? This doesnt make sense. Over-reved for 1/11th of a second?
 
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Old 03-04-2008 | 04:47 PM
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the only thing i can chime in on is that i wouldn't go near a P-car with that high of miles without the expectation that a new engine would be in the not-so-distant future.
 
  #30  
Old 03-04-2008 | 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by PJF
That is the plan. With wanting to do track events, this car with the mods and miles almost makes more sense to me than a lower mileage garage queen. I certainly do not have to worry about putting too many miles on it! I am going to chizel away at the seller a bit more, but I think if the leak down checks out and the deal is between $27k-$28k, then I am going forward. I would still love to see links to MY02 cars selling in the low $20k range. I have looked and they are nowhere to be found.
PJF,

I can relate to your "dilemna" in trying to find the low $20K car in the various search engines and as many have referenced, it does come down to an emotional decision in the end with buying P-cars.

That said, if you plan to do some driving events with a 100K+ motor, the life of that engine (with all the proper maintainence assumed) may be in its twilight. If you can take the "hit" of possibly having to replace the motor in short order ( at about $12K ), then go for this car as it appears to fit your eye. For others ( including myself), I would wait for the spring "blooming" of all the winter cars to hit the market within the next few weeks for those looking to upgrade. Result, more inventory to choose from. My $.02!!

Getting more info from all of us, beyond what you have heard already, is probably not going to aid you with YOUR decision.

Best of Luck in what you decide!! demosan
 


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