Vivid changed turbo pricing, how about Vivid/Evoms change NA S.C. pricing
#46
03-16-2008 | 11:22 AM
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John:
I understand your points.
However, technology (tv's, computers) gets cheaper because there are new developments. Processors get smaller, faster, cheaper. Evo hasn't really changed the kit since inception. For all practical purposes, nothing has changed other than a larger coolant reservoir in the front bumper. And I'm still not sure if that ever made it to market. If the companies that produce the parts for Evo are still using the same parts and there haven't been any significant advancements in the parts themselves or the production of the parts, why would the price go down? I'm sure if there was a Ver 2.0 kit that made more power and cost the same, they could carry both kits and sell the original for less for people that did not want to spend as much money. That's not the case here though.
I will still disagree about EVO selling more units if the price were $7000. They may sell a few more, but not significantly so and their margin would be lost. If you were going to spend $7K plus another $2K for install, why would you let $4K stand in your way when you're already committing to spending so much money on a mod? Most of the people that want to do this mod, are just going to do it regardless. We have had at least one person here that actually went and got the Ruf unit. Beautiful piece, but talk about over priced... I think one point you guys are missing is that Evo is still the cheapest kit on the market.
The fact that 996 prices have gotten lower really has nothing to do with EVO's product. That's like saying TT prices have gotten low, so tire and suspension manufacturers should lower their prices as well. Funny, I think paying $500 for a back tire is being gouged
Obviously there is room on these kits, as evidenced by group buys. However, I'm sure SC orders probably only trickle in at 1-3 per month. They can at least justify reduced margins on the group buy's with a guaranteed significant volume increase.
If I were in the market for a SC kit again, I would keep a running GB list going. Get a group of committed people, maintain the list, hit the magic number and approach EVO. It may take a few months, but the savings would probably be worth it in the end.
If you're in a hurry and can't wait, there are "ways" to negotiate with your local distributor on this product. I did. PM me.
I understand your points.
However, technology (tv's, computers) gets cheaper because there are new developments. Processors get smaller, faster, cheaper. Evo hasn't really changed the kit since inception. For all practical purposes, nothing has changed other than a larger coolant reservoir in the front bumper. And I'm still not sure if that ever made it to market. If the companies that produce the parts for Evo are still using the same parts and there haven't been any significant advancements in the parts themselves or the production of the parts, why would the price go down? I'm sure if there was a Ver 2.0 kit that made more power and cost the same, they could carry both kits and sell the original for less for people that did not want to spend as much money. That's not the case here though.
I will still disagree about EVO selling more units if the price were $7000. They may sell a few more, but not significantly so and their margin would be lost. If you were going to spend $7K plus another $2K for install, why would you let $4K stand in your way when you're already committing to spending so much money on a mod? Most of the people that want to do this mod, are just going to do it regardless. We have had at least one person here that actually went and got the Ruf unit. Beautiful piece, but talk about over priced... I think one point you guys are missing is that Evo is still the cheapest kit on the market.
The fact that 996 prices have gotten lower really has nothing to do with EVO's product. That's like saying TT prices have gotten low, so tire and suspension manufacturers should lower their prices as well. Funny, I think paying $500 for a back tire is being gouged
Obviously there is room on these kits, as evidenced by group buys. However, I'm sure SC orders probably only trickle in at 1-3 per month. They can at least justify reduced margins on the group buy's with a guaranteed significant volume increase.
If I were in the market for a SC kit again, I would keep a running GB list going. Get a group of committed people, maintain the list, hit the magic number and approach EVO. It may take a few months, but the savings would probably be worth it in the end.
If you're in a hurry and can't wait, there are "ways" to negotiate with your local distributor on this product. I did. PM me.
Very good points! And, you have come very close to a remedy. However, I will counter this: The price for the parts was never high to begin with. And the technology has not changed - not in a hundred years anyway. The individual components to the kit are not high tech. Their culmination is the development component that is in fact what Evo is banking on. That's my issue. Their cost of material for the kit is not more then $2 - 3,000. If they have sold 100 kits at 10Gs a pop then they should have made their R&D costs back plus, plus. Just like the flat screen TVs, that's when the price comes down - or at least it should.
And maybe I'm wrong about the market, but I don't think so. I'm clearly not alone in thinking that a 996 - especially 02 - 04 - represent tremendous value as well as offer a nearly bulletproof platform upon which to build a unique and remarkable car. But there are many areas that need to be addressed, and if I'm going to ultimately build the car I envision, those areas need to be put into perspective. That $4,000 you mention is my entire suspension budget! I think there is going to be surge in after market 996 tuning because eventually the idea of a late model, near 500 HP, flagship PORSCHE for right around 50Gs (if you build it up yourself) is going to appeal to a lot of people.
So, I think your idea of a running group buy is a great idea - it would at least prove my point one way or another. So the question becomes how many kits would the order need to be for Evo to sell them for under 7 grand (like closer to 6 than 7)? The problem to these group buys is that the price is a closely guarded secret. For example, if they just said, "Okay, if 20 people commit the price will be $6,480.00," (plus installation) and give it 6 months to fill up, I think it would. At least it would give cheap bastards like me the opportunity to realistically budget the rest of my build and see it to fruition. The guys who want their SC kit yesterday can pay retail.
#47
03-16-2008 | 12:19 PM
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One other thing I forgot to mention is that the 10K for the kit not only includes margin for EVO, but also for the local distributor. Although some may buy direct from EVO itself; most probably buy from their local distributor/installer. There has to be enough money in it for VF Engineering (builder), EVO (distributor), and whoever ultimately ends up retailing the kit. There are a lot of people with their hands out before the SC ultimately ends up in your car I just feel that this pricing is more complex than we give it credit.
Take a whack at the running GB. I think it would be very successful. You won't be disappointed with the blower, even if you pay full price
If you can get it cheaper, well all the better. It's a great mod, and will quench your turbo thirst for a while.
I just feel that this pricing is more complex than we give it credit. Take a whack at the running GB. I think it would be very successful. You won't be disappointed with the blower, even if you pay full price
If you can get it cheaper, well all the better. It's a great mod, and will quench your turbo thirst for a while.
#48
03-16-2008 | 04:51 PM
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This is just my $0.02. i work in the pharmaceutical industry and to tell u the truth, the actual cost for making the prescription drugs are really cheap. Something that costs u 100's actually only cost the drug manufacturers pennies to make. However, for every approved drug in the market, there might be 5-10 drugs failed in the pipelines and the drug company has to absord the cost for all the R&D, clinical trials, regulatoty fees and etc, which could cost billions. Now back to the EVO SC, well, i think the parts might actually cost them somewhere between 1-2k (or even less, think of china or india). However, u probably dont know how many 996 engines they have destroyed during their R&D. Dont get me wrong, i;m not standing on Evo's side and trying to defend them. FYI i'm also a cheap bastard and i'd love to get my hands on one if the price is right (~4k) . For EVO, there is no reason for them to sell those SC kit cheap because there are not much competition. Just like the pharmaceutical industry, until u can get the generics with equal or better quality, those drug com will continue to rip u off. So if EVO doesnt file any patents on the SC kit then u can do us all a big favor by copying every single parts of the Kit and sell it for cheap (again, think of india or china ). Of course you'll have to prove that the quality of your kit is equal or better. On the other hand, even if evo does lower the price, i also dont think ppl will rush to grab those SC kit. Bear in mind that in CA, it's a PITA to maintain the SC kit because of the bi-annual smog check. Imagine spending 2-3k for labor to install/uninstall the SC kit for every 2 years just to pass the smog....To tell u the truth, i was seriously considering the SC kit but the smog check kills the deal (for now). The best solution to this problem is to start saving for a tt 
.
. For EVO, there is no reason for them to sell those SC kit cheap because there are not much competition. Just like the pharmaceutical industry, until u can get the generics with equal or better quality, those drug com will continue to rip u off. So if EVO doesnt file any patents on the SC kit then u can do us all a big favor by copying every single parts of the Kit and sell it for cheap (again, think of india or china ). Of course you'll have to prove that the quality of your kit is equal or better. On the other hand, even if evo does lower the price, i also dont think ppl will rush to grab those SC kit. Bear in mind that in CA, it's a PITA to maintain the SC kit because of the bi-annual smog check. Imagine spending 2-3k for labor to install/uninstall the SC kit for every 2 years just to pass the smog....To tell u the truth, i was seriously considering the SC kit but the smog check kills the deal (for now). The best solution to this problem is to start saving for a tt .Very good points! And, you have come very close to a remedy. However, I will counter this: The price for the parts was never high to begin with. And the technology has not changed - not in a hundred years anyway. The individual components to the kit are not high tech. Their culmination is the development component that is in fact what Evo is banking on. That's my issue. Their cost of material for the kit is not more then $2 - 3,000. If they have sold 100 kits at 10Gs a pop then they should have made their R&D costs back plus, plus. Just like the flat screen TVs, that's when the price comes down - or at least it should.
And maybe I'm wrong about the market, but I don't think so. I'm clearly not alone in thinking that a 996 - especially 02 - 04 - represent tremendous value as well as offer a nearly bulletproof platform upon which to build a unique and remarkable car. But there are many areas that need to be addressed, and if I'm going to ultimately build the car I envision, those areas need to be put into perspective. That $4,000 you mention is my entire suspension budget! I think there is going to be surge in after market 996 tuning because eventually the idea of a late model, near 500 HP, flagship PORSCHE for right around 50Gs (if you build it up yourself) is going to appeal to a lot of people.
So, I think your idea of a running group buy is a great idea - it would at least prove my point one way or another. So the question becomes how many kits would the order need to be for Evo to sell them for under 7 grand (like closer to 6 than 7)? The problem to these group buys is that the price is a closely guarded secret. For example, if they just said, "Okay, if 20 people commit the price will be $6,480.00," (plus installation) and give it 6 months to fill up, I think it would. At least it would give cheap bastards like me the opportunity to realistically budget the rest of my build and see it to fruition. The guys who want their SC kit yesterday can pay retail.
And maybe I'm wrong about the market, but I don't think so. I'm clearly not alone in thinking that a 996 - especially 02 - 04 - represent tremendous value as well as offer a nearly bulletproof platform upon which to build a unique and remarkable car. But there are many areas that need to be addressed, and if I'm going to ultimately build the car I envision, those areas need to be put into perspective. That $4,000 you mention is my entire suspension budget! I think there is going to be surge in after market 996 tuning because eventually the idea of a late model, near 500 HP, flagship PORSCHE for right around 50Gs (if you build it up yourself) is going to appeal to a lot of people.
So, I think your idea of a running group buy is a great idea - it would at least prove my point one way or another. So the question becomes how many kits would the order need to be for Evo to sell them for under 7 grand (like closer to 6 than 7)? The problem to these group buys is that the price is a closely guarded secret. For example, if they just said, "Okay, if 20 people commit the price will be $6,480.00," (plus installation) and give it 6 months to fill up, I think it would. At least it would give cheap bastards like me the opportunity to realistically budget the rest of my build and see it to fruition. The guys who want their SC kit yesterday can pay retail.
#49
03-17-2008 | 12:04 PM
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Does evoms make everyone that buys from GP sign a non-disclosure agreement. Why won't anyone post what they paid from a GP.
I've been wondering why evoms has not injected anything into this thread good or bad in regards to their SC pricing . . . I guess they've been banned from this forum and sponsorship has been pulled, cancelled or not renewed. This is very, very interesting.
I've been wondering why evoms has not injected anything into this thread good or bad in regards to their SC pricing . . . I guess they've been banned from this forum and sponsorship has been pulled, cancelled or not renewed. This is very, very interesting.
#50
03-17-2008 | 01:14 PM
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Does evoms make everyone that buys from GP sign a non-disclosure agreement. Why won't anyone post what they paid from a GP.
I've been wondering why evoms has not injected anything into this thread good or bad in regards to their SC pricing . . . I guess they've been banned from this forum and sponsorship has been pulled, cancelled or not renewed. This is very, very interesting.
I've been wondering why evoms has not injected anything into this thread good or bad in regards to their SC pricing . . . I guess they've been banned from this forum and sponsorship has been pulled, cancelled or not renewed. This is very, very interesting.
Why don't we have threads that question the pricing from Porsche? They must be making too much money based on the material cost?If you want a limit put on how much a company's profits are, vote Democratic this fall. They'll make sure that no one is allowed to make more than a few dollars on anything they sell and then they will tax away the remaining profits. This will greatly spur innovation and all sorts of new businesses will sprout up so they can take great risk for being rewarded with the potential to make a few pennies of profit.
Maybe the Democrats can slip an earmark through to EVOM that will allow them to lower the price. Why not make the taxpayers help you buy something that you don't need?
Or....maybe people can find a way to be more financially successful or live within their means? I know that might be a new concept for some, but it's the real world.
I personally think that a company should demand a full income statement and balance sheet from each and every customer before determining how much they should be charged. This would allow them to charge more to those who can afford it which in turn will subsidize those who cannot. Then, those of us who do not feel like working for a living can still afford what we can't afford.
Last edited by 1999Porsche911; 03-17-2008 at 01:16 PM.
#51
03-17-2008 | 02:08 PM
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living within your means is un-american.
and, gosh haven't the republicans done a great job these last seven years: the dollar is in the toilet; the housing market is in the toilet; the country is deeper in debt than it's ever been; the executive branch is shredding the constitution; we're engaged in wars in two countries with no exit strategy. i mean, what's not to like. all of it draped in the flag and waving a bible. it's like homer simpson said: "they took away our rights to protect our freedom."
but the democrats are no better. they'll make us pay more taxes so when welfare mothers drop a litter we can be sure they stay healthy. you gotta maintain that crop of working poor or things will really go to hell. and, they'll prop up the unions. (funny story: i had a guy at a trade show tell me he could hook up my ethernet connection but couldn't plug my computer into the power strip because it wasn't part of his job. boy was his union protecting him or what?) and the trial lawyers; man, democrats love them some lawyers don't they? they'll sue you for pointing out that hiring prostitutes with government funds is illegal.
so pardon the few of us that don't live in the "real" world for trying to wring a bit of joy out of life by playing with toys we probably can't afford and whining a bit when the reality sets in.
and, gosh haven't the republicans done a great job these last seven years: the dollar is in the toilet; the housing market is in the toilet; the country is deeper in debt than it's ever been; the executive branch is shredding the constitution; we're engaged in wars in two countries with no exit strategy. i mean, what's not to like. all of it draped in the flag and waving a bible. it's like homer simpson said: "they took away our rights to protect our freedom."
but the democrats are no better. they'll make us pay more taxes so when welfare mothers drop a litter we can be sure they stay healthy. you gotta maintain that crop of working poor or things will really go to hell. and, they'll prop up the unions. (funny story: i had a guy at a trade show tell me he could hook up my ethernet connection but couldn't plug my computer into the power strip because it wasn't part of his job. boy was his union protecting him or what?) and the trial lawyers; man, democrats love them some lawyers don't they? they'll sue you for pointing out that hiring prostitutes with government funds is illegal.
so pardon the few of us that don't live in the "real" world for trying to wring a bit of joy out of life by playing with toys we probably can't afford and whining a bit when the reality sets in.
#52
03-17-2008 | 04:20 PM
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1999, you'd be surprised that we agree on more then you know.
So many 350z/wrx/evo owners will be trading up to 25-35K 996's that will want to upgrade performance. 10K will be to steep on a 30k car, but I would think at 6-7K someone would sell a lot of SC's.
So many 350z/wrx/evo owners will be trading up to 25-35K 996's that will want to upgrade performance. 10K will be to steep on a 30k car, but I would think at 6-7K someone would sell a lot of SC's.
Last edited by Ken7258; 03-17-2008 at 04:35 PM.
#54
03-17-2008 | 08:39 PM
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OMG! Now we're getting political? All I can say is viva America! On one had you have industry trying to make as much as they can and on the other you have consumers who want to save money. I think I was 12 the last time I paid retail for anything. I find it comical that there are people who not only willingly pay retail, but also mount a vehement defense for doing so. Makes you think how far their roots go.
My position against Evo is simple: I purchased their V-flow air box (at a slight discount) and was appalled at the shoddy piece of cheap crap I received. To compound matters, when I called to complain about how it literally fell apart, I got absolutely no response from them.
Now, I'm looking into super charging my car. Yes, I'm looking for a quality product at a fair price. And, yes, I'm looking for a good deal just like I've done, and will do, in every single other aspect of my professional life. But, God forbid I should question Evo's motives especially considering the stellar aftercare I got after I purchased their last quality product. Clearly, Evo is in business to make money while I'm in it to save money. Apparently this means I will not be buying and Evo supercharger. But it doesn't mean I'm not super charging my car.
As a capitalist, I'm confounded by Evo's tact. It would seem that their business model is nothing is better than something. Insofar as that's the case, it speaks volumes as to their profit margins. Why lower the price when there are plenty of people not only willing to pay it, but also go to bat for you when someone questions it? I can just imagine the tuners of 500 HP Acura's cracking up while they read this. If only B&M made super chargers for Porsche.
My position against Evo is simple: I purchased their V-flow air box (at a slight discount) and was appalled at the shoddy piece of cheap crap I received. To compound matters, when I called to complain about how it literally fell apart, I got absolutely no response from them.
Now, I'm looking into super charging my car. Yes, I'm looking for a quality product at a fair price. And, yes, I'm looking for a good deal just like I've done, and will do, in every single other aspect of my professional life. But, God forbid I should question Evo's motives especially considering the stellar aftercare I got after I purchased their last quality product. Clearly, Evo is in business to make money while I'm in it to save money. Apparently this means I will not be buying and Evo supercharger. But it doesn't mean I'm not super charging my car.
As a capitalist, I'm confounded by Evo's tact. It would seem that their business model is nothing is better than something. Insofar as that's the case, it speaks volumes as to their profit margins. Why lower the price when there are plenty of people not only willing to pay it, but also go to bat for you when someone questions it? I can just imagine the tuners of 500 HP Acura's cracking up while they read this. If only B&M made super chargers for Porsche.
#55
03-17-2008 | 10:08 PM
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I will still disagree about EVO selling more units if the price were $7000. They may sell a few more, but not significantly so and their margin would be lost. If you were going to spend $7K plus another $2K for install, why would you let $4K stand in your way when you're already committing to spending so much money on a mod?
Obviously there is room on these kits, as evidenced by group buys. However, I'm sure SC orders probably only trickle in at 1-3 per month. They can at least justify reduced margins on the group buy's with a guaranteed significant volume increase.
If you're in a hurry and can't wait, there are "ways" to negotiate with your local distributor on this product. I did. PM me.
Man, you guys are funny. I love how the P car owners will ***** about a $10k supercharger kit, but Supra owners will spend $50k+ on a build.
First, when you complain about prices, make sure you understand how all of this works. Start to finish, breakdown of the SC kit prices. Manufacturing of all the components involved, i.e., supercharger, hoses, intercooler, etc... VF engineering designs and builds the kit, so they need to get paid. Evo is the exclusive dealer for this kit, they need to make money. People like myself who sells these kits for Evo need to make money, so the kits are priced so dealers can make money. Im certainly not going to buy something for retail and try and sell it for more.
So, you have 3 parties who need to make a profit, so figure in the margins, on top of R&D and manufacturing costs. The price is justified by the volume of kits sold and the other factors involved. If VF sold these kits to the public rather than through Evo, the price would be much lower.
As for what deputy dog said, I cant agree more. He knows what hes talking about, and the same for 1999Porsche. The drop in price will not significantly increase the number they sell. Think about the price of gas, and supply and demand. If you know economics, you will understand that if the price of gas falls, the demand will increase, but only to a certain point. Why drop to the price floor, when the volume sold remains the same? Doesnt make sense.
#56
03-17-2008 | 10:22 PM
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I've had my EVOMS kit installed now for over two years.
I paid full retail and had arguably one of the best guys in the business install it. Sharkwerks in Northern CA.
To me it's not about the parts list, it's about the people behind it. Early on I had a problem with the SC and Sharkwerks and EVOMS both stepped up right away and looked after me, top notch service for a top notch product.
Personally, I don't mind paying for that, they're worth it.
Oh, and while y'all whining about the price I've put over 30k miles of 400+ horsepower horseplay on mine.
:-)
EVO SC kit owner #108
I paid full retail and had arguably one of the best guys in the business install it. Sharkwerks in Northern CA.
To me it's not about the parts list, it's about the people behind it. Early on I had a problem with the SC and Sharkwerks and EVOMS both stepped up right away and looked after me, top notch service for a top notch product.
Personally, I don't mind paying for that, they're worth it.
Oh, and while y'all whining about the price I've put over 30k miles of 400+ horsepower horseplay on mine.
:-)
EVO SC kit owner #108
#59
03-17-2008 | 11:59 PM
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i was actually lampooning 1999porsche911's post. all politicians are self-promoting liars, thieves and hypocrites.
pcars are expensive toys. if you want the EVO SC kit badly enough you'll figure out a way to get it. no point in being bitter about it. crazy prices aren't limited to high end automobiles. watches -- priced a rolex lately --, women's hand bags, women's shoes, you can spend as much as you want on whatever you want. there used to be -- not sure if it still exists as it was an extreme example of decadence -- a restaurant in manhattan that had gold in every dish on the menu.
so forget politics and vote with your dollars. shop at the place that gives you the best value. different people think different things are a good value; vive la difference.
post. all politicians are self-promoting liars, thieves and hypocrites. pcars are expensive toys. if you want the EVO SC kit badly enough you'll figure out a way to get it. no point in being bitter about it. crazy prices aren't limited to high end automobiles. watches -- priced a rolex lately --, women's hand bags, women's shoes, you can spend as much as you want on whatever you want. there used to be -- not sure if it still exists as it was an extreme example of decadence -- a restaurant in manhattan that had gold in every dish on the menu.
so forget politics and vote with your dollars. shop at the place that gives you the best value. different people think different things are a good value; vive la difference.
#60
03-18-2008 | 07:14 AM
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i was actually lampooning 1999porsche911's post. all politicians are self-promoting liars, thieves and hypocrites.
pcars are expensive toys. if you want the EVO SC kit badly enough you'll figure out a way to get it. no point in being bitter about it. crazy prices aren't limited to high end automobiles. watches -- priced a rolex lately --, women's hand bags, women's shoes, you can spend as much as you want on whatever you want. there used to be -- not sure if it still exists as it was an extreme example of decadence -- a restaurant in manhattan that had gold in every dish on the menu.
so forget politics and vote with your dollars. shop at the place that gives you the best value. different people think different things are a good value; vive la difference.
post. all politicians are self-promoting liars, thieves and hypocrites. pcars are expensive toys. if you want the EVO SC kit badly enough you'll figure out a way to get it. no point in being bitter about it. crazy prices aren't limited to high end automobiles. watches -- priced a rolex lately --, women's hand bags, women's shoes, you can spend as much as you want on whatever you want. there used to be -- not sure if it still exists as it was an extreme example of decadence -- a restaurant in manhattan that had gold in every dish on the menu.
so forget politics and vote with your dollars. shop at the place that gives you the best value. different people think different things are a good value; vive la difference.
Very well said.