Hello,


Thanks to a lot of pondering, research here in the forum, some very kind advice, expertise and help from forum members here, and input from local Porsche Club members I am currently working on financing to purchase my first Porsche.

There are a few questions I could really use your assistance with to help me nail down exactly what is my best option. My budget is $40k, max. I've been considering 996 series models of the 2003-2004 vintage. Originally I was leaning toward a C4s, however three apparently very experienced and knowledgeable members of the local Porsche Club were unanimous in agreement that a C2 would be "more enjoyable and fun to drive, and the more sporting car to own". Two of the three are longtime owners of multiple Porsches, race, and seemed to have great expertise. One of them is even a certified driving instructor. Are they right about the C4s vs the C2?

They also recommended finding a 2004 with the X51 option as they said the standard cars power might disappoint me. This is apparently a very rare option and I'm not finding any available except on the Anniversary model, which seems to fall well out of my price range. Your thoughts on this would also help.

I did some research on the 2004 C2 Anniversary model, and included options mentioned are the X51 engine, and "sport suspension". Do non Anniversary models not have a "sport suspension"? And if so, what does that entail?


Thanks for any advice, experience and perspective that you can share.


John

 

I'm sure you will get many good opinions but the bottom line is the Porsche driving experience is incredible, period. With great prices going around, I'm sure you will be happy with whatever you decide on. With a few mods, a Turbo, C4S or others will still leave you smiling.

 

You dont mention what car you're coming from so it's hard to say if the power will really disappoint or not, but your friends know you better than I do. I'm coming from a 400hp, 400lb/ft C6 Corvette and my C4S is definitely slower. But it's way more fun to drive and I like the extra little margin of safety the AWD gives me, even if it's all in my head. If you can, try to drive a few different cars to get the feel for them. But I agree that you probably wont be disappointed with the overall driving experience of any 996.

 

A C2 (or C2S) with PSM is a nice all around option package to look for as it gives you some more safety without the additional weight and HP loss of a C4.

I wouldn't worry much about the suspension option as its best to go aftermarket coilovers anyways. The stock suspension isn't much to rave on about.


Just remember, this will all be personal opinion. It's much like posting: "I'm looking for a wife, what do you recommend?"

Cheers
Aaron

 

I can understand that perspective. The difference here is, you guys have had the chance to drive these cars and have specific knowledge of them. Granted, if I was looking for a wife, I'm not sure I would want that same perspective!

Thanks for the comments.


John

 

what are you driving now ?

have you driven an all wheel drive car before ? did you like it ?

what do you want from the car ? speed, handling, looks ?

 

Thanks for your thoughts. I'm coming from an E36 series M3, but it's great to know someone who moved from 400hp to a C4S is happy.

I think the perspective the Porsche Club guys were basing those comments on were that they felt a C2 would be disappointing vs a C2s, or an Anniversary model, and might not supply the kind of power I would be expecting in a serious sports car. Thats the key things I was hoping to get a perspective on here from those who have experienced some, or all of the above.

John

 

Well, speed, handling, and looks would all be nice to have, and were what I was expecting from a car in the class of the 911.

As far as your question about my driving experiences, I leased two consecutive Audi TT's with Quattro from 1999-2005. At that time, I could only manage one car for year round driving and the AWD was a necessity with the snow here in Michigan, and the added fact that I have to traverse some serious hills, especially the one I live on to make it home in the winter.

The Quattro AWD always provided a great feel of security, in all conditions, but honestly did make the car seem heavier, a bit less agile and sporting vs the 2wd equivalent. Of course, the weight of AWD systems makes that essentially a given excepting supercars with enough horsepower to make the issue meaningless.


John

 

as far as I know, there wasn't a 996 "C2S" produced for the US market. I believe the 993 and 997 cars had a C2S designation but the 996 didnt. Correct me if Im wrong.




John,

Congrats on your decision to move to a porsche. Coming from plenty of M3s, I will say that you have a very great car and any "upgrade" that you can make will be amazing - its very tough to beat an e36 m3 as a do-it-all driver's car!

No offense, but I would suggest getting some specifics about why these "experts" think the C2 is better. The widebody cars are the only 996s I would consider. EVERYTHING ABOUT THE WIDEBODY CARS IS BETTER*. There are only two things (that I can think of) that can be considered "better" about the C2 over the widebody 996s (c4s and TT): 1) it is a bit lighter than the widebody c4s and TT and will equal a bit quicker straightline speed by a very small amount and a bit more nimble on stock suspension, and 2) the initial cost is less (MSRP).

To refute case 1) - If the fraction of a second 0-60 and the marginal handling superiority in out-of-the-box form is something that would cause you to pick the c2 over the c4s, get a couple of "cheap" bolt-ons, like exhuast, retune, intake, and suspension and the c4s would be fantastic and be a better platform for traction - not to mention a much better daily driver in any climate...

To refuste case 2) - One of the key things to look at was the original MSRPs. Does more expensive = better? Nope, not always, but there is a reason that the C4S has a base price that is roughly 15k more than a standard C2. In this economy, two equal cars (similar MSRP, year, and options), the price difference is FAR less than 15k, so in my opinion, it makes the c4s a better deal. BTW, there is nothing hotter than a widebody Porsche. Im sure those cars will hold their values a bit better as well because the production numbers are far less.

In no way is a C2 a crappy car, so dont take my post as such. I just find the widebody/awd cars to be a MUCH better value right now and its my opinion that it would be a mistake to get a 996 C2 at this point. Park the c2 next to any widebody 996 and youre going to be pretty better IMO. Given that your budget is 40K (I dont know if that includes all the tax and registration, etc.) I would probably recommend a very nice C2 given the extreme price difference in maintenance between a p-car and the e36 m3. I was astonished to see the labor and parts prices for porsche jobs and would definitely recommend a proper budget/allowance for that. It might be more than you expected and anyone that cares about their car doesnt want to skimp on maintenance.

......And yes, I have a C4S for sale right now, but that doesnt have anything to do with my thoughts (my car is outside of your budget anyway). LOL!

 

Drive it and if you love it then buy it...Simple

 

Man, for 40k, you can easily buy a 996 c2, c4s, and even a decent turbo BUT I would sprig a couple extra dollars for a 997 for the best of all worlds

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Carre...#ht_500wt_1180

 

For $40K you might get lucky and find a higher mileage TT, which I would take before the other options. The advantage of the C4S over the C2 are most people think it looks better, and it has a leather interior which is less likely in the C2. A vinyl interior for a $70K MSRP car is really inexcusable IMO. But that's it. AWD is not needed in these cars with all the weight being squarely over the rear tires. Some TT owners have gone to the extraordinary step of removing the front drive on their cars.

 

Note that people who've spent time with a brand & related clubs will tend to obsess over details that might not even be noticeable to someone else. They can also create an artificial "pecking order" of who gets the most status in the group, depending on which options are on their car. [yawn]

The C2 probably handles a little more lightly, a little more agile than the C4. The difference is subtle. The X51 will give you more power. While it's nice to have, I think you will enjoy the base engine.

Many buy the C4 for the body style (wider hips).

If you're going to drive in the winter, the C2 does fine with snow tires, the C4 is somewhat better. If you're used to driving in the snow/ice, having the engine over the driving wheels and snow tires is such an improvement over front engine/rear wheel drive cars -- even the C2 is a pleasure.

I tend to own my Porsches for quite a while and subscribe to the axiom that simpler cars have less to go wrong or maintain. So, I bought a C2 -- but splurged on getting a Cabriolet. (I didn't intend to get a Cab. But this car had such low miles and was in such good shape that I decided to buy it; I've enjoyed that it happened to be a Cab.)

So, part of it is to think about yourself....the kind of driving you want to do, how much different features really might mean to you....even drive a few to see if you can really tell the difference.

 

+1... Or if you really want to feel a difference, drive a full-size truck (F-150 or similar) for awhile... then hop into whatever flavor 996 or 997 you can afford... drive the truck a day or two a week and I guarantee your Pcar will give you thrill every time you start it... works for me...

Rudy

 

Would love to find a TT but to get even remotely near my budget, it would indeed have to be high mileage. Besides simply wanting to buy a mint, or near mint low mileage car, I also have some logic behind it. This level of expenditure will result in my needing to use this car as a daily driver for the next ten years or so. The car would be driven from approximately mid April, to mid November each year (the non winter months here) putting on roughly 8-9k miles per year. I would feel less than confident about a higher mileage car being able to manage that. At the very least, not without some pretty significant outlays for replacement parts.
Also, I'm not certain how long, or based on what amount of mileage you can continue to add extended warranties.

I do completely agree you with the leather seat issue. I would not buy any model of Porsche without those. As you noted, offering vinyl seats in a $70k plus automobile is insulting!

John