I'm thinking about throwing on the H&R clubsport coilovers on my 2000 carrera. Has anyone compared these to the bilstein pss10s? I am planning on using the car for autocrossing and occasional trackdays, but mostly on the street. Are the bilsteins worth the extra $700. I'm planning on running H&R swaybars so I figured I would stick with the same manufacturer for coilovers. I won't bother with the H&R street coilovers and would rather get the clubsport set. Since I'm doing the suspension over I know I need droplinks for the swaybars, but is there anything else I need to get? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

hey craig. i have the H&R street coilovers and they work great on the street and on the track but then again i have the front and rear swap bars, GMG rear bog bones, GMG front toe steer kit, GMG bumpsteer kit, and solid monoball bushings. not sure about the clubsport set though.

i can't judge for the pss10s but from what i hear, you can't really go wrong with either one... i think the real issue is the setup and how much negative camber you end up running/toe

try running -1.5 camber in the rear and -2 camber in the front

 

If i just do the coilovers and swaybars with droplinks, will i be able to get these camber settings or will I have to install adjustable components like camber plates or adjustable control arms to get there? I am running michelin sport cups if that matters too.

 

The suspension itself will not allow you to get the camber you need. You will have to do GT3 lower control arms or change the upper mount. Some people complain that the stock upper mounts start to fail when you use sticky tires and camber plates, but I did not have any issues on my car. I run -2.0 degrees in the front with control arms only.

Also, you should contemplate the upgraded Tarett drop links and mounts, as the short drop links that mount to the pinch bolt may alter your suspension geometry under loading.

-td

 

I had the clubsports on my car and I was very happy with them. They're not nearly as harsh as the description would make them out to be. As a matter of fact the new owner of my car's son has PSS9's on his 996 and said the ride is comparable. In our short conversations he prefers the H&R's feel to the PSS9's.

If you use the H&R Sways there's no need for upgraded drop links. There's double beauty in this in that there's no need to worry about noises down the road from drop links.

Camber will depend on ride height. I had my car on the stock shock mounts for some time, dropped to Euro MKI GT3 lowest hight setting and got -1.7 degrees of camber out of the front. The car was very low though. I eventually put GT3 monoballs on my car in the rotated position and was able to get over -3.0 degrees of camber out of it which truthfully was too much for most tires other than hoosiers. Backing off to around -2.7 was about right for Toyo's which I ran most of the time. **edit** I just saw you run cups...they like alot of camber. You're going to need at least camber plates or Arms to get where you need to be.**

Andy

 

Have you considered the JRZ RS? It's a dual adjustable without using a remote reservoir. They make good quality shocks, just not widely used.

 

I think the jrz are out of my price range and I was informed I didn't need new droplinks for the h&R sway bars. I will probably get some weltmeister camber plates to help get me some more camber. Is there any bad part of the suspension that should be upgraded while I'm changing things out?

 

You may want to consider some of the aftermarket rear toe links that are on the market. Toe steer at the rear is a big issue once you're lowered. Some coming from the stock rubber bushing on the factory toe-arm and often times the stock eccentric bolt will slip and cause the adjustment to come out of spec as well.

There are solutions on the market that insure the adjustment will not change and there are some that also have adjustable bump steer capabilities. Both solutions run an inner beearing vs. rubber bushing.

If you choose not to run the toe arms just make sure you have pleanty of toe-in at the rear in your allignment so that bump steer isn't causing toe-out conditions mid corner.

Andy

 

just to share, weltmeister camber plates are produced by ERP. you can the toe steer fix from ERP too, they produce it and its the ones i use.. GMG are also produced by ERP. Cary at ERP is a suspension nut =P

 

Those shocks are comparable with each other with the Clubsports being a bit more stiffly sprung. If you do plan on tracking a lot. I would go with the suggestions above.

I run this setup but with other coilovers

HR Sways (I run them, very sweet)
Upper mounts, I like Mode mounts myself
Adj Droplinks - stock suck and they are 10 years old now too - can't unload the sways to corner balance without them
rear toe links
control arms
monoballs bushings
bump - steer kit / Porsche Motorsport

Get it sorted by a shop that knows what they are doing. that could be most important to ensure everything works as it should.

Align and corner balance.

 

c2mojo,
On the swaybar links you run, are they drop links or normal size but adjustable. The H&Rs mount in the factory position so you would need to get longer(drop) links right? I just want links that are factory size but can be adjusted?

I'm thinking about just running the toe links and new camber plates to see what I get for camber settings.

What does a bump steer kit do for you?

 

If you don't mind me fielding the question, The geometry on the angle of the toe arms changes for the worse when the car is lowered causing much more bump steer in the car than when it was at stock height. The end result is toe-out if a bump it hit mid corner causing instability at the rear.

There are a couple of solutions. The GT3 and GT3 RS wheel carriers are direct fit and offer a revised toe-arm mounting location built into them to combat toe steer at lower ride heights. The GT3 RS being the best ones to choose for a lowered car. They're quite expsneive though and require you to also run GT3 brakes on the car as the 996 brakes don't fit the GT3 carriers.

The more economical solution is to buy toe arms that allow for spacers to be used on the outer connection point to the wheel carrier which can adjust the angle of the toe-arm back to factory spec.

Andy

 

tarrett offers the toe links as well as another set of links with the bump steer ends. Will someone just getting into tracking their car feel the difference with the bump steer or should i get the regular adjustable links and if I find the bump steer to be a problem get the bump steer ends then?

 

If you are just starting, you don't need to get adjustable toe links now (or ever really in a primary street car). This is really something for way down the road for serious track use. On the street, you won't notice the difference at all. And on the track, you won't be able to tell for some time. Personally, I never upgraded my toe links and did not have any issues either with lowering the car or alignment coming out of spec under hard driving. This included running with R6s ALOT and even full slicks for a while.

If you are intent on upgrading your suspension for primarily street with occassional track, you can get by with just the suspension components and that's all [springs, dampers, swaybars].

WRT negative camber, if you only get 1, I suggest lower control arms over upper mounts. There is less caster change and also a wider track. WRT sways: just use the factory links with the HR bars, as they work fine. And since the front bar is not adjustable, you really don't have any preload issue anyway. Also, unless you are racing and don't ever have a passenger, a good initial setup and proper alignment is WAY more important than corner balancing your car.

I don't suggest running MPSC to start your track "career." These tires will not get up to temp unless driven very hard, and you won't like it when they are cold. And even when driven hard, they take a couple laps, sometimes 3 to get right. There are better solutions in the R-comp catergory for novices, and many choices in the good street tire category.

 

I'm only running the mpsc's because i got a good deal on them and I have to replace my current tires soon. I'm sure the cold grip of the mpscs are better than the yokohama s.drives on my car currently, maybe not in the rain, but i rarely drive the car in the rain. I drive the car maybe 5k miles a year and will be using the car more for track now than driving around town. I am thinking about upgrading parts to the suspension like the different links beacuse the car is about 10 years old and has 70k miles on it. I don't want to do these upgrades with the stock components and go to my first track day and break a swaybar link because of the larger bars and 70k miles of abuse or something else(probably wont happen, but I like to think safety first). If one day I get into club racing or competition autocrossing I would like to know what people do to improve their cars.
There's a shop near me that does good alignmments and was recommended by a few instructors at my last track event. They also do corner balancing if needed.
So, I just want to thank everyone for their input and when I get around to putting the suspension in this winter I will let you know how it turns out. Thanks all.