With motor + installation + good suspension + C2 cost, you're up roughly over $70k and you still don't have the GT3--and you have a car that you'll still take a bath on when you eventually sell it. Hard to justify that cost on the motor. Now, if you found a seriously dirt-cheap C2 with blown motor, then it starts to get interesting.

 

I would love to see that car take on a "mildly" modded TT (stage 1, 490hp, 542 lb ft from FVD, 495hp, 515 lb ft from Evolution). How much weight are you adding for the S/C kit with liquid to air intercooler, additional radiators, water tank, water pump, pipes, pullys, etc. and get the 2980 lb weight? Root type S/C are heavy, and the car is 2966 lbs stock. 14 lbs add on is not enough for just liquids alone? (water is 8lbs per gallon, oil is heavier, the SC kit will add both) How much torque will it produce? 400 lb ft at the crank? Your still at 140 lb ft deficit with maybe 200 lbs advantage in weight. It doesn't sound so fast now is it? In addition, the added weight is all behind the real wheel. That makes it even more tail happy and not so slot car like. This is throwing out all reliability issues.

Now, if you start with a 996 GT3 at 3036 lbs and up the ante to 400hp, 302 lb ft with programs and exhaust. Now that would be a light weight slot car. Or, might as well wait a few month for the 997 GT3.

http://www.flat-6.net/forum/showcar....article_id=336

http://www.porsche.com/all/originmotorsport/usa.aspx

Looks like they COULD find a lot more HP (35hp more) from the 3.6L engine, 415hp, 8,400 rpm red line. 0-62 in 4.3, 0-100 in 8.7, and top out at over 190. $106k, Full warranty.

 

*sigh* ...here we go again....

TPC SC kit with throttle body mod on a C2 = http://www.vrsm.vividracing.com/main/tpcdyno1.pdf

+ head and cams on a blown motor = another 30RWHP-(very pessimestically)
________________________________

Total = 448RWHP.

448RWHP = 527BHP

Actual C2 curb weight 2960lbs + TPC kit (55lbs, from TPC direct) for a total of 3015lbs*

3015 LBS / 527 BHP = 5.72 lbs/HP ratio of S/C'ed C2.

3400 LBS / 490BHP = 6.93 lbs/HP ratio of modded 996 TT <--(ur weak example)

....in fact! I'll continue on to adust to HP of the 996 TT to what you'll really need to MATCH the C2's power to weight...

3400LBS / 595BHP = 5.72 lbs/HP ratio....LOL. Meaning a TT WILL have to produce nearly 600BHP to MATCH that C2's power to weight.-(a stage 4 EVO modded 996 TT basically; which costs a whopping $14,500!! from EVO) ...where's the "cost effectiveness" going to a TT !? (especially when you include the $20+K premium for the CAR) ROFL


--- Kevin

And as far as your "supercharger weighing down the rear end to cause oversteer and/or handling issues" comment...you have a wild imagination!! One of the TPC S/C'ed 996 C2's (with JRZ suspension) driven by Mike himself was consistently putting up better lap times to a well driven local stock GT2 TT...and was murdering the GT3's. To bad this mod is hopelessly illegal in any sort of competitive racing... (i.e. SCCA, ALMS, Grand Am, IMSA, etc, etc..)

 

As I stated , I looked into which way is better and I come to the same conclusion every time, A Supercharged 3.6 with the head work and news cams would be faster and cheaper to go. It will make more power then a stock TT and because the car is lighter I can only assume much more fun to drive. If we start talking about doing the TT with mods , well its a different ballgame. I might be interest in the 4.0 L if they supercharge that!. I would love to see 600 HP out of a charged C2! Now that would be fun.I am sure the 9ff motor package is good, I just find it a little pricey for what your getting.

 

apples to apples guys.

the 9ff 4.0L is hand built revs to 8500
Has been thoroughly engineered and tested to provide up to 430HP.
You cant compare that to an M96 with any sort of S/C.

Premium engineering, quality, safety and reliability is worth something.

If you simply want the highest HP for the lowest price a Nitro'd Mustang is impossible to beat.

 

What I originally said myself...that's one BAD *** motor package. A GT3 KILLER package.

 

I think you can compare it to properly built and tuned 3.6 Charged motor.
, its not all about HP, its about the most HP for less money. I will put good money on that I will get 400 HP out of the 3.6 and still drive it everyday. **** even if I break a bottom end there is so much money left over form not buying the 9ff stroker motor, i could built 3 or 4 short blocks.
I have a been there done that with the quarter mile racing, it was fun , just dont feel like wrenching everyweekend anymore.I am sure the 9ff is an amazing motor......but the asking price sounds way out to lunch for me.

 

oh KILRGT, don't think I'm disagreeing with you for one moment! I personally am looking into doing the TPC SC kit myself with several extra's and perheps head and cam as well (I'm shooting to be one of the first 996 C2 owners to crack 450RWHP out of an M96 at any cost...with a FAT area under the curve to go with it ) No N/A 6cyl will come anywhere close to touching that. And if the world was a perfect place...****, i'd love a TPC SC'ed 4.0L !!! lol. But seriously, just having that 4L motor would be enough for me and the exotic'ness of keeping it N/A with a screaming redline. But to be quite honest i can't hack $32,000 price of entry otherwise I'd be "in like sin!" That package would embarrass a GT3...and feel oh so nice. For the money, a power adder with bolt ons is the cheapest way to go and makes perfect sense... (it doesn't hurt that it'll make it faster than any of the more expensive options to boot )

 

I am with ya on this one for sure, I too would llike to spank a TT or GT3 with a little ol 3.6. I do admit tho , the 4.0 L has got me thinking.. Damm i hate these types of forums...always spending Money.I just cant chew that $32,000.00 with any self respect! And seeing how i am in Canada that 32 would turn it to almost 50 by the time I get the car sent up and brought back and then the exchange rate...

 

Yeah, $32K is definitely steep when for half the cost you can easily make 50-75 more HP than even that motor going the intercooled S/C route. I do however love the fact that 9ff just sends you the motor complete! (simply drop the well engineered race motor IN and unbolt and drop yours to send back to them; exchange)

 

Yes, here we go. Porsche manual shows 3.6L C2 empty weighs in at 3020 to 3262. Where did you get 2960? Must be the 3.4L Take the middle point 3141 and add 55 you get 3196 empty.

Not sure where you get 527hp. 448 * 1.15 = 515. C2 should uses 12.5% loss as oppose to TT's 15% which gives you 504hp. Now your HP to Wt ratio is 6.34 instead of the awesome 5.72. Against the 6.93 of the mildly moded TT. Torque is what accelerate a car not HP. So the C2 Tq to Wt is at 7.27 against TT's 6.27. Which would be faster in acceleration? TT will not need 600hp kit to "match". The 600hp kit will blow the doors off of it so let's not go there.


Now the key word is JRZ suspension. That gives you full spectrum of tuning to compensate for the extra weight back there. Try hang 55 lbs back there and up high and 50% more torque on a stock suspended C2 and see what it does to handling. This is why the Suspension Mods should always come before major power mods.

Let's not talk about "well driven" cars. It's such a broad term. There are so many variables in there. I just saw a video of a guy that's thought of as good driver. But I noticed that he can't even rev match down shift. Every time he does it, there is 2 revs. One by his right foot, the other when he let out the clutch.

Have Mike do a multi-lap unbiased (he would want to try to sell his product) time trial between the C2 with JRZ and a TT with JRZ with same tires and see which one is faster. That would be a good comparison.

 

Get the C6 Z06 for list of $67k. 505hp, 470 lb ft. 7:42.9 lap time at the Ring. That's good money spent. But there is no "perfect" driver feel and reward that you get from a 911. That's what it's all about.

 

Dude, whats laughable is how you think you know what your talking about strickly on the premise that you can add and substract...multiply and divide....and then you do the very calculation wrong!! LOL

" 448RWHP * 1.15 = 515BHP" <---don't work that way buddy, rofl. The fundamental concepts elude you...i don't even know why I bother.

...it's a percentage of the ENGINE HP that makes it to the rear wheels...you don't add a factor to the REAR WHEEL HP to find flywheel. Example;

448RWHP * 1.15 = 515BHP

now the correct way,

527BHP * (.85) =448RWHP ...becuase only 85 perectage of the flywheel power is getting transmitted to the rear wheels.

#2) 1345KG or ~2960lbs is coming straight out of my OWNER'S MANUEL...for a 3.6L* 2002. The reason I went with the lightest is to keep it completely fair I gave the 996 TT model the LIGHTEST weight as well...for a stripped down bare bones 01' model (lightest year) FINE....if I used the middle road power to weight would get even WORST for the AWD TT BOATS as they can be 3780+LBS FULLY LOADED with TIP* LOL.

#3) Torque is for stoplights to stoplight racing...0-60mph, the most worthless measure of performance (even straighline performance) HP is what makes you pull away from your competitor. That why every publication on earth compare's HP...and power to weight. and noone compares "torque to weights" ROFL. It's obvious how bias you are in favor of a TT coming out with something like "torque to weight" to try to mask it's issues.

Lastly, get your facts straight....I said Mike was beating a GT2 TT's lap times not a " TT. " A " 996 TT " is NOTHING on a road course. They're too heavy...and the AWD makes for a sluggish non-responsive handling dynamics. I've had three guys I know personally make the switch only to regret it for that exact reason. PCA guys. Mike himself in a easier to drive 996 TT with JRZ's would of been lapped even worst due to less power to weight and considerably more heft thru the turns.

--- Kevin


PS: ...listen Alex, if you want to buy a pre-owned TT I can get you one cheap. I actually have a few friends looking to sell their 01's and 02's for the new GT3. But they don't make a serious track racer...they're more a "GT" road car. And for THAT role I would get one...but i don't want that role. I want a racer. An extremely nimble, light, telepathic reflexs-having slot car....that'll only be a light RWD 911 everytime.

 

You are so right. I guess thats why I am trying to seek out the perfect 996, I honestly believe the new ZO6 the best bang for the buck HANDS down, but i just cant get over the fact its a chevy.Now if Porsche could make a 500HP and a 500TQ NA motor I wouldnt think any other sport car MFG in the world would sell any cars.I guess this goes back to the German way of doing things make it simple and make it work.I think we all agree that Porsche's are not about HP, its about the driving .

 

Thanks for the education.

Obviously, there is a weight difference from the cars sold where you are and American versions. I've posted in my last post of the page I got my info from.

I'm sorry. You have gotten it all wrong. High HP is for drag racing. It's a calculated figure from the function of torque and RPM. This function comes in at top speed runs in a straight line. The area under the torque curve is what moves the car. But it's a concept that's hard to compare unless you get the dyno sheet and calculate the area. If you read any of the tuning mags, all comparison would have a peak HP category and a torque curve category. Then if you look at track time, torque monsters will always win. The wider the Power Band the faster the car around the track. Your right about straight line is useless. I agree totally. I'm a "fun is in the corners" guy.

I mention Regular TT only because this discussion, weight issues, HP figures are all about TT and about Modded C2 beating a TT. So, I felt the comparison should stay with these two cars and not bringing in one more subject.

I'm sorry. I have no interest in a TT. Thanks for the offer. I'm a all motor guy. So even a S/C is not my cup of tea. I'm glad AMG is going to all motor to all their cars.

I'm purely chatting about this because of how great the TT was built and someone spending $20k or more to try to beat the TT is just kind of odd to me as far as money is concern. Positive manifold is all the same to me. That's why comparing TT to S/C is a good topic.

That's why I was suggesting to start from a GT3 and tune it to 400hp/308 tq is the way to go. GT3 should also be the lightest of the 911s. I actually want a european 3.8L GT3 engine if I could get my hands on one. That should be good for 420 hp and 340 tq. That would be a slot car that tears up the track.

Do you have any idea where the GT3 engine comes in at as far as cost? I think the US GT3 engine should cost about the same as a TT engine as they are built on the same base. Very different than our engines. But Kilrgt is right, keep swapping engine might even cost less than buying one of these monsters. Maybe look for a totalled GT3.

I have a 4S purely for the fat *** look. Otherwise, a GT3 would be what I want.