Anyone from RUF can help me figure out why the RUF600 kit only has 600hp with modified turbos when a EVO610 has 610hp and with out Modified turbos? I am really really confused! as i am very interested in doing the RUF600 kit myself and since they are pretty much the only ones who have the Modified VTGs for now. Please help me understand this! Also if any RUF guys is reading this, please let me know when the RTurbo will be out and what kind of body kit will be available for the 997TT if i am interested to do a RTurbo conversion. Thanks guys in advance!!!

 

Ruf always underestimates power. I assure you the Ruf conversion will be superior to the evo in every way, with all do respect to evoms. The Ruf name will actually add to the value of the car imo, where most tuner jobs kill resale. I believe the Rturbo conversion is available now.
But for a lot less, the Ruf 550 package is a relative bargain at 20k.

 

Thanks for the explanation Surgeon but I'd like to know what sort of "EVO hp or American hp" are we looking at for the RUF 600 package? Whats the REAL HP in relative comparison with the EVO610 or 690R? With modified turbos i would assume the RUF 600 kit should produce 700+ hp no? is it worth the $50,000 MSRP? ANY RUF GUYS can help out please???

 

Are you sure about that? I find that people make that comment as often as "Porsche always understates their HP ratings." But when we actually dyno the cars...the reported ratings are right on.

I guess the real question is...do you want an EVOMs kit producing 610 HP for $12K + installation with the stock turbo and clutch (where we already know the clutch is going to burn out...see eclou's posts on his stage 2 kit)...OR do you want a 600 HP kit with a stronger clutch, modified turbos and a 1 year warranty...for $45K installed.

 

I am thinking logically a kit with modified turbos should produce more power than a kit with out. So logically RUF should have more power than EVO right? LOL this just doesn't make sense to me.

 

to add to your confusion, I posted a 60-130 mph time of 7.7s and 100-200 kph time of 6.6s. These are as far as I know as fast as any 610 car has ever posted, and I am on stock turbos with an ECU and AWE exhaust (just $7k in mods )

 

I'm assuming that the are more efficient turbos for the boost you will be running. Doesn't mean it has to be at its max potential...

 

To the point, I just don't want to pay $50gs and be slower than the future EVO700+ kits. Looking at the 996Turbo's 550 package seems like it is just as quick as a EVO700 kit on the 996. Its this the case with the 997 as well?

 

And a new Sachs clutch...

 

do you want to pay 50k for the ruf cachet or do you simply want more power? if you want the latter you can get that for much less than 50k

fyi, AWE should have some upgraded VTG turbos out soon too.

where are the vendors when you need them? can someone from Ruf and possibly someone from AWE answer this gentleman's question?

 

Call them - You're more likely to get a response that way. They like to talk cars. I'm sure they would be more than pleased to talk to you about the conversions. 1-888-783-6872

 

I can't give you the complete answer you are looking for but I can give you my opinion. Ruf builds a complete package balanced for speed, precision and reliability. They do not push 1.5 bar of boost, they push 1. They want the car to last, not be stretched to its max breaking point. My assumtion is that they do new larger turbos to help the engine reliably and safely push the extra power, not just crank up the boost via the ECU and hope for the best. That along with the rest of the kit and you have piece of mind for many ear to ear grinning miles. Best of luck with your decision, you won't be disappointed.

 

TT Surgeon-

With all due respect, Ruf does not underestimate power. From our experience dynoing MANY Ruf set ups, they are simply VERY conservative. We have dynoed cars (on the same days) with similar hardware and the Ruf cars always dyno less. Sorry to burst bubbles, but it's true.

As for the comment regarding resale, those days are coming to an end. Thanks to the internet, the Ruf name carries less cachet now then it ever has. I regularly have clients calling asking if we know of tuned cars for sale, not necessarily Ruf. They are coming to the realization that there is just no need to pay that kind of money when you can get higher performance from tuners such as us.

There, I said it.... Let the haters hate, but the numbers speak for themselves.

As for our approach to turbo tuning, the word "guess" is not in our vocabulary. We have engineers on staff that analyze data constantly. Take the turbos themselves for example. We know what they can and cannot do. The compressor maps tell the whole story. Acquiring them and learning to read them is Turbo Tuning 101. We are not just shooting in the dark in hopes that we don't blow them up! These suckers aren't cheap!

Same goes for our Larger VTG Turbo 700hp kit. We know their efficiency as well. We are working directly with Borg Warner on this project. For those that don't know, this is the same company that makes the OEM Porsche VTG Turbos.

Our tuning center uses state of the art tools to measure the following:

EGT
Ignition Timing
Requested A/F vs. Acutal A/F
Actual vs. Requested Boost
Throttle body
Injector duty cycle
Pressure drops
Knock
MAF readings
IAT's
Fuel Pressure

All critical in getting the most out of the car and doing it in a safe and realiable manner.

We are not just relying on the boost gauge in the cluster to develop the product... (by the way, it's very inaccurate)

Our software partner is G.I.A.C. They tune software in the same way as Bosch, and Ruf for that matter. When I say that, I mean that all of the factory fail safes remain INTACT to get the desired power level. They both (G.I.A.C. & Ruf) will not take shortcuts and turn of various features or monitoring devices in the Motronic to get what they are looking for. This is what separates the men from the boys when it comes down to automotive software. Unfortunately there are too many so called "programmers" out there with generic tuning software that really doe not allow full manipulation of the Bosch Motronic.

Also, while I am on my soapbox, let me clear the air on this topic. DYNAMOMETERS!
Look, we use this as a tuning tool. Not to boast how much hp we make, or if the factory is conservative or lying. It comes down to the delta after changes are made and tuning driveability via applying load. THAT'S IT!

It makes no difference to us what the car dynos stock. If a Turbo Porsche that is advertised at 450 crank hp only dynos at 100 WHEEL HORSEPOWER, yet dynos at 106 WHEEL HORSEPOWER after for example changing an air filter, then it's a success! Don't get caught up in the numbers. It's about the delta. I personally think dyno data has cut a few years off the lives of some of the board members...

Lastly, I want to make it perfectly clear that I am in no way bashing Ruf. I have the utmost respect for Alois and how he has aligned himself with the world's greatest automotive manufacturer. It's an impressive partnership. It's just that I know more power can be found elsewhere WITHOUT sacrificing reliability.

I'm done. Have at it...

 

But wait, there's more!

I forgot to add that along with aggressive dyno testing, we incorporate real world testing as well. Belive me when I say this, we are NOT easy on the equipment. Our goal is break it so you don't.

A.W.E. Tuning 700hp 997TT:
Pump Fuel (93 octane)
Full Weight
Pilot Sport Cups
11.2 @ 128mph

Video here:
http://awe-tuning.com/media/multimed...S_Dragrace.wmv

Track testing is also part of our abuse regimen. We have done multiple track days in the hands of an aggressive PCA Nationally Certified Driving Instructor with zero mechanical failures, except a torn boost hose, which is now being strengthened.

If you want a reliable 3rd party opinion, board member eclou has also helped prove the reliability and performance of the A.W.E. Tuning and G.I.A.C collaboration.

Is all of this fun? Hell yes, but we take it all very seriously as our reputation is on the line.

 

Mike

Interesting reading.

I am not a RUF fan exactly but I do have respect for their products, like many others out there, especially because they tune conservatively. Not everything is acceleration times, some of it is how long you can keep it and for how many thousand miles.

A few questions for more understanding on how to compare kits:

- Is boost controlled exclusively by the Motronic with your programming? i.e. will boost levels go up and down throughout the RPM range based on parameters detected, and will it alllow for controlled overboost like the stock 997TT?
- Do you offer 1-2 years engine warranty with your 700HP kits?
- RUF have been supplied their turbos by the 3K-BWarner R&D world head office, about 150 miles away from them. What is BWarner USA doing differently?
- Do you run the same boost as RUF and produce more power?
- I consider 10-12 second dragstrip runs as a poor indicator of engine reliability and endurance, however a great test for peripheral components (clutches, axles, tires, boost hoses etc). Would you agree with me?

I have no doubt that your products are very good, I am uncomfortable however with the assumption that they are better than others, namely someone who has been building and tuning Porsche cars for about 30 years like RUF and a few out there.