Great thread. I had the same questions. Ceramic (which I have now) sure seems like the way to go, but I don't look forward to the day I have to replace a rotor.

 

Forgot to mention one other beautiful benefit. My ceramics undoubtedly dust less.

 

dropping unsprung weight seems to be the biggest advantage. ceramics and either champion or dymags, and you have some serious weight loss at each corner. That has got to affect handling and acceleration.

 

My red's produce alot of dust! I drove it only 3 days this week and my rims are coated with brake dust.

I could only imagine how much easier it would be with Dust-Free Cermaics.

And reducing unsprung weight is a big plus also.

 

Until you needed to replace your rotors. Can you say 5700 each!? The sad truth is I have had 3 dealers pull the PCCBs off and payout of their pocket for GT Brakes. They are replacing rotors non-stop as good will and Porsche will not cover it. It is cheaper to buy all new brakes than replace two rotors. Poor guy that called yesterday has 9300 miles on his car and needs two rotors. No track time just street use. I can out up with a little dust for those cost!

 

I thought the beauty of PCCBs were their durability in addition to their high temperature tolerence. How can the rotors wear at only 9300 miles?

 

"...replacing rotors NON-STOP" ???? Because of problems? Funny, I don't think i've seen one post here or on rennteam or rennlist with someone with a problem?

 

Chris,

I see a lot more turbos and questions and issues from the national PCA not the board as well as dealers directly. One of the advantages or disadvantages of being a Tech Advisor for the PCA

 

I’ve had both steel & Carbon Ceramics, and will never buy another high end sports car w/ old tech. steel brakes. It’s not just about the 50% added un-sprung weight of the steel brakes or the extra money they will cost to maintain when you need to change rotors it’s the mess they create and the way they look after a while. Visible rust is not my cup of tea on a $150k+ sports car.

I know I heard from 2 different Service Managers that Porsche recommends changing rotors w/ every pad change but just to confirm I just called Prestige Porsche and spoke w/ Service. I asked; “W/ the 997 turbo does Porsche recommend changing steel rotors w/ each pad change” His reply “Absolutely”…. I asked; “What about waiting and doing the rotors with every other pad change” His reply; “We will not cut rotors, Porsche recommends changing rotors w/ every pad change”. I hear you guys that say it’s safe to cut rotors, I’ve had it done it on my own non-Porsche vehicles just telling you what I’ve heard now numerous times .
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I didn’t order PCCB’s on my Turbo Cabrio. because it will save me money, obviously I would need 8 steel brake rotor changes before I could re-coupe the cost but still stand by my original statement; they will cost me less to maintain than steel. I hear the point about the cost of a PCCB rotor but how many people here have had to change a PCCB rotor on their street car based on wear? Anyone?
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I had CCM’s on my Challenge Stradale & have CCM’s on my current F430. Last summer when I was fed up w/ the steel brakes on my 997 S cab.(the only part of that car I really hated btw) I started looking into the costs for steel vs. Ceramics on the 997 Turbo. Here’s some info. a Porsche rep. sent me RE: PCCB’s: (which also answers my ? about weight savings, I forgot I had the info all along )
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Porsche Christophorus Magazine April/May 2001
"In the test program, the ceramic disks and Brembo calipers have withstood
twenty such hard braking cycles from 250 km/h (155 mph) to 100 km/h (62 mph)without any decrease in braking effectiveness. And with somewhat more
sensible use, the silicon-carbide discs should last 300,000 kilometers
(185,000 miles)."

Porsche Cars North America, Inc. 2000 911 Turbo Literature:
"Porsche Ceramic Composite Brakes: Strong enough to stop time. (Or, at
least, wear and tear)

Once again, Porsche has stopped conventional thinking in its tracks by being
the first to offer a revolutionary new ceramic brake disc as an option on
the new 911 Turbo. Called Porsche Ceramic Composite Brakes (PCCB), this new
technology shatters benchmarks in every respect.

While it’s dimensions are similar, a ceramic brake disc weighs 50 percent
less than its cast-iron counterpart, reducing unsprung weight by 44lts for
improved handling. Armed with new composite metal linings, ceramic brakes
maintain their frictional coefficient regardless of temperature for the
ultimate in fade-free stopping power. Cross-drilled discs and water
resistant brake linings ensure equally superior performance in wet weather.

PCCB technology achieves immediate emergency braking without having to stomp
on the brake pedal. It’s service life is every bit as effortless: the
ceramic’s hard surface and corrosion-free properties allow a brake disc to
last as long as the car itself. Which, for a Porsche, is a long time
indeed."

Porsche Panorama, April 2001

"In use, these are brakes with no sense of humor, and somewhere in the
owner’s manual it better say “don’t put your foot on the brakes unless you
look in the rear view mirror first.” There might also need to be a word
about having enough air in your lungs to go without breathing for a while
during operation of the ceramic seizers. They are nevertheless quite linear
and controllable, with sometimes a little pad squeak, but surprising little
dust. They are reported to be very durable – as in forever – but be prepared
to buy pads a bit more often."

Suncoast Motors – on their website:

"The 911 GT2 comes with the most effective braking system ever featured on a
production Porsche: the Porsche Ceramic Composite Brake (PCCB). This is a
powerful new technology designed to cope with even the most extreme
conditions on racetrack and road.
At the heart of the new technology is a ceramic brake disc made of specially
treated carbon fibre silicated in a high-vacuum process at approximately
1,700 ºC. The PCCB disc is cross-drilled and internally vented, and is
approximately 50% lighter than conventional alternatives. Since this weight
is unsprung, i.e., not supported by the suspension, PCCB automatically
improves agility and handling. Another feature of the system is the
innovative new composite brake pad, which combines with the ceramic disc to
deliver extremely high and constant levels of friction under braking. By
replacing conventional metal components with composite pads and discs,
temperature is no longer a factor in brake performance. This configuration
not only helps minimise braking distances - particularly under heavy use -
it also ensures safer deceleration from high speed thanks to improved fade
resistance.
In an emergency stop, PCCB immediately delivers maximum stopping power to
the road. Abrasion is extremely low compared with metal discs, with each
PCCB disc offering a service life of approximately 300,000 km. The new
composite brake pads also last around twice as long as conventional ones.
What's more, the new PCCB pads do not absorb water, making for outstanding
performance in the wet.

From Ward's Auto World
new ceramic-composite rotors can withstand a maximum temperature load of
2,550 degrees F (1,400 degree C) and exhibit low levels of thermal
expansion, reducing brake "judder" (jar and shudder) and squeal under hard
use. The discs are said to be good for 186,000 miles (300,000 km) of use -
and they do not corrode.


The Car Connection
Ceramic composites
The Porsche system, called "Porsche Ceramic Composite Brake" or "PCCB" will
be about a $10,000 option on the 911 Turbo and will be standard equipment on
the 911 GT2. The PCCB system will use a distinctive yellow caliper at each
wheel and will reduce weight at each corner to the tune of about 11 lbs.,
thus the PCCB system weighs about half that of the standard system. The
rotors look remarkably like the iron versions they replace since they are
vented and cross-drilled. The rotors are machined as needed and attached to
the racing style composite hub - another weight saving feature due its
precise, computer-aided design. Porsche claims a life of at least 100k
miles in addition to an immunity to corrosion and better wet braking due to
the special metallic pads not absorbing any water. The primary benefits of
PCCB are thus greatly improved wet or dry stopping power with reduced fade;
improved suspension response/handling, and improved acceleration (due to
less rotational inertia in the all wheel drive powertrain).

From Automania
For example, Porsche Ceramic Composite Brakes (PCCB) use a cross-drilled,
carbon fiber reinforced ceramic disc with special composite pads. The new
PCCB brake disc weighs 50 percent less than its cast-iron counterpart
despite considerably larger dimensions. Another key benefit of PCCB is the
carbon brake’s exceptional life. While the actual rate of wear on all brake
components, particularly pads and discs, is entirely dependent on individual
driving style and vehicle usage, comparison testing reveals a much longer
life expectancy with PCCB than with conventional braking systems, where
Porsche claim 250,000 km or more under normal driving conditions.


From Automotive Intelligent News

For the first time the new Carrera features ceramic brake discs enhanced to
an even higher standard, the new design of the interior cooling ducts
increasing the flow of cool air through the spinning disc. At the same time
the larger number of cooling ducts increases disc rigidity, in the process
significantly reducing deformation of the disc under high pressure. A
further point is the optimisation of fibre reinforcement on the friction
surface of the brake discs, significantly enhancing the resistance to
abrasion particularly under high loads. For the customer, these improvements
mean even better performance, enhanced brake comfort, and even longer brake
system life.

From Brembo, makers of the ceramic brakes for Porsche and Mercedes

Ceramic composite brake rotors are standard on Formula One racers, and a new
era of road-car use is beginning with their optional - and super high-cost -
fitment on bad-boy models like the Porsche 911 Turbo and Mercedes-Benz CLK
55 F1.

In addition to outrageous stopping power, the carbon ceramic brakes are
claimed to reduce weight by almost 13 lbs. (5.8 kg) per rotor, and they're
nearly impervious to heat-induced fade and will last for the life of the
vehicle.

 

Hey Chris. Thanks!!! You too!

Let me know if I can be of any help to you on 'that other thing'.

 

I've been wondering about that acceleration wise. The Champions I just bought save about 16lbs, the PCCB's another 44lbs, plus Titanium bolts (Crazy I know) approx. 4lbs so figure around 64lbs saved in un-sprung weight. Plus 30(?) from the very rear of the car for the tubi I just got so about 94lbs. do you think there would be any difference? I'm sure it's probably not a difference (acceleration wise) I could feel but i wonder if it would make a difference if timed? Can't hurt......

 

Hi,

going for the standard brakes fitted to the TT due to the cost involved which i cannot justify for what will be 99% road driven.

Rgds.

 

I also talk to PCA Turbo owners all across the ffice:smarttags" /><ST1lace w:st="on">US</ST1lace> and none have alerted me about any PCCB problem. I have several 911 turbo registry owners who have over 40,000 miles on there car and have not yet changes a pad or rotor.
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On the other hand, Steve (Porsche PhD) is well respected within the PCA world. He is the technical advisor for 911 Turbos I believe he is reporting the truth with regards to his experience in this area.
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I also believe if a P-car owner needs pads and rotors at 9000 miles (Gen 2 PCCB’s), it may be his/her driving and not the PCCB’s.
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One thing to note is that I see Brembos mounted to the 911 GT3 RSR. What’s up with that?????
PCCB's are the best braks I have ever experienced.