CAR Magazine: 911 vs GTR
#286
02-29-2008, 09:39 PM
Looks aside, I think Nissan did a great job of competing. Porsche has got to get its game together here. Before the 997Turbo came out, many of us were hoping that they would blow the competition out of the water (early , optimistic estimates were 500+hp), and instead they released a car that was of the same performance (or slightly faster) as the z06 and F430.
Fast forward to today with the GTR, and again the 911 Turbo has an opportunity to facelift and add/remove/refine some technology so that they kill the competition:
-Porsche Traction Management? The car is only a few seconds faster than the 996TT on the 'ring.
-VTG? limits the car's tuning capability and horsepower potential. The RUF RT12 has way more horsepower and didn't need VTG's. This forum has 996TT's with +700hp!
-Tiptronic? I don't even have to type anything about this..
I hope Porsche gets it right with the facelift, because the competition is here, and it is ugly.
#287
03-01-2008, 08:16 AM
Looks aside, I think Nissan did a great job of competing. Porsche has got to get its game together here. Before the 997Turbo came out, many of us were hoping that they would blow the competition out of the water (early , optimistic estimates were 500+hp), and instead they released a car that was of the same performance (or slightly faster) as the z06 and F430.
Fast forward to today with the GTR, and again the 911 Turbo has an opportunity to facelift and add/remove/refine some technology so that they kill the competition:
-Porsche Traction Management? The car is only a few seconds faster than the 996TT on the 'ring.
-VTG? limits the car's tuning capability and horsepower potential. The RUF RT12 has way more horsepower and didn't need VTG's. This forum has 996TT's with +700hp!
-Tiptronic? I don't even have to type anything about this..
I hope Porsche gets it right with the facelift, because the competition is here, and it is ugly.
Fast forward to today with the GTR, and again the 911 Turbo has an opportunity to facelift and add/remove/refine some technology so that they kill the competition:
-Porsche Traction Management? The car is only a few seconds faster than the 996TT on the 'ring.
-VTG? limits the car's tuning capability and horsepower potential. The RUF RT12 has way more horsepower and didn't need VTG's. This forum has 996TT's with +700hp!
-Tiptronic? I don't even have to type anything about this..
I hope Porsche gets it right with the facelift, because the competition is here, and it is ugly.
The situation with the new M3 brings some some interesting parallels.
What's interesting is that the new M3 has already been declared slower than the C63 AMG in car mags. About a year ago, I remember BMW started running ads in car mags trying to fight back against AMG by saying handling is just as important as acceleration. Funny thing is, AMG has vastly improved their handling in the more recent generations and they are crushing BMW in the power dept.
Last edited by turbonator; 03-01-2008 at 08:28 AM.
#289
03-01-2008, 09:16 AM
Hmm, I'm an idiot for seeing the wrong thread and here's what I said...
I'm very sorry, but as much as I love the article and it's great and all...it's a little bogus to me. I highly doubt the GTR would beat the Turbo...and yes, I know it did on the ring...that's not my point. My point is that, if any of you saw the video for part of this review, you would see that this idiot test driver, I don't care how good he is, CANNOT drive a porsche correctly. Is this saying I can? No. It's saying that seeing him over-steer when he's trying for a fast lap is idiotic. The Turbo has such immense traction, and if you don't know how to trail-brake, ESPECIALLY with a Porsche, which he obviously didn't, you end up with slow times. If he actually drove the Porsche well, then I'm pretty sure it would have a much better time, if not beat the GTR by a very small margin of <1 sec.
Sorry for the rant guys, I just don't like comparisons based on lack of PORSCHE (not general) driving skills.
Then I responded the following later:
I completely agree with you. There always seems to be a motive to let the underdog win. I mean, who ever wants what wins to win all the time? Now, am I saying the GT-R is bad? NO! It may BE more worth it than the turbo, and a little more practical, albeit being large, ugly, and a Nissan...But is it faster? I don't believe so. Faster than a GT3? No way in hell. Sorry.
Most if not all journalists know how to drive very well, but do NOT know how to use the 35/65 weight distribution of PORSCHES optimally.
And plus, I would never believe Best Motoring...ever.
I'm very sorry, but as much as I love the article and it's great and all...it's a little bogus to me. I highly doubt the GTR would beat the Turbo...and yes, I know it did on the ring...that's not my point. My point is that, if any of you saw the video for part of this review, you would see that this idiot test driver, I don't care how good he is, CANNOT drive a porsche correctly. Is this saying I can? No. It's saying that seeing him over-steer when he's trying for a fast lap is idiotic. The Turbo has such immense traction, and if you don't know how to trail-brake, ESPECIALLY with a Porsche, which he obviously didn't, you end up with slow times. If he actually drove the Porsche well, then I'm pretty sure it would have a much better time, if not beat the GTR by a very small margin of <1 sec.
Sorry for the rant guys, I just don't like comparisons based on lack of PORSCHE (not general) driving skills.
Then I responded the following later:
In what tests have the two been compared head to head.
Best Motoring - their races are ALWAYS staged, there is no way a GT-R or Superleggerra would be running 3 and 4 seconds a lap faster than a TT and GT-R on a barely 1 minute track. On top of that these are all PRO drivers, there is no excuse for that when a pro driver ran 2 seconds faster in the same TT with shot tires a couple weeks prior.
Staged?- Yes
Car Magazine- As noted above, there is no way the TT would be that much slower in two corners than ALL of the other cars, one of which an M3, NO WAY POSSIBLE. Then it has the fastest top speed BY FAR. And is fastest in the last corner all of a sudden when it wasnt even close the first two??????? If you watch the video the guy was drifting the whole time he drove the Turbo, he wasnt trying at all to really drive it. It doesnt seem to complicated what their motive is. And if you look at some of the pre release press they were calling the Gt-R a better car before any of them drove it, so they already had a favorite.
Staged?- Yes.
Now lets move to Autocar who test the GT-R against the GT3. They test for one lap on a freezing cold morning. This is unheard of and purely stupid, they've never done such a test before but knew a good way to handicap the GT3. On cold Sport Cups the GT3 understeers badly and loses by .3. So they can make the GT-R out to be faster on a Road Course than a GT3 and that is pure nonsense.
Staged?- I definitely beleive so.
Finally the Nurburgring. I dont beleive this was staged, I think Nissan just has a better testing procedure. Walter Rohrl has to run in traffic with other manufacturers while Nissan rented out the whole track. Walter passed 11 cars on the GT2's flying lap and 5 on the GT3's. If he tested without the trafiic I'm sure he'd be much faster. There is too much speculation about who times what part of the track and how to make a real comparison.
Staged?- who knows.
As far as everything else the GT-R ran an 11.6 @ 121 for an edmunds test in Tokyo. It was cold and at sea level. Edmunds ran 11.6 @ 118 in 1120 ft elevation in Nevada which is sure to sap lots of trap speed. The GT-R had enough traction to run 3.3 0-60 so traction wasnt an issue. But the fact remains that the TT is just as fast or faster in this area, but everyone is making it out to be otherwise. Several mags have said the TT feels faster in a straight line, but that part gets left out and the GT-R is considered faster in every way. But it will come to light soon enough.
Best Motoring - their races are ALWAYS staged, there is no way a GT-R or Superleggerra would be running 3 and 4 seconds a lap faster than a TT and GT-R on a barely 1 minute track. On top of that these are all PRO drivers, there is no excuse for that when a pro driver ran 2 seconds faster in the same TT with shot tires a couple weeks prior.
Staged?- Yes
Car Magazine- As noted above, there is no way the TT would be that much slower in two corners than ALL of the other cars, one of which an M3, NO WAY POSSIBLE. Then it has the fastest top speed BY FAR. And is fastest in the last corner all of a sudden when it wasnt even close the first two??????? If you watch the video the guy was drifting the whole time he drove the Turbo, he wasnt trying at all to really drive it. It doesnt seem to complicated what their motive is. And if you look at some of the pre release press they were calling the Gt-R a better car before any of them drove it, so they already had a favorite.
Staged?- Yes.
Now lets move to Autocar who test the GT-R against the GT3. They test for one lap on a freezing cold morning. This is unheard of and purely stupid, they've never done such a test before but knew a good way to handicap the GT3. On cold Sport Cups the GT3 understeers badly and loses by .3. So they can make the GT-R out to be faster on a Road Course than a GT3 and that is pure nonsense.
Staged?- I definitely beleive so.
Finally the Nurburgring. I dont beleive this was staged, I think Nissan just has a better testing procedure. Walter Rohrl has to run in traffic with other manufacturers while Nissan rented out the whole track. Walter passed 11 cars on the GT2's flying lap and 5 on the GT3's. If he tested without the trafiic I'm sure he'd be much faster. There is too much speculation about who times what part of the track and how to make a real comparison.
Staged?- who knows.
As far as everything else the GT-R ran an 11.6 @ 121 for an edmunds test in Tokyo. It was cold and at sea level. Edmunds ran 11.6 @ 118 in 1120 ft elevation in Nevada which is sure to sap lots of trap speed. The GT-R had enough traction to run 3.3 0-60 so traction wasnt an issue. But the fact remains that the TT is just as fast or faster in this area, but everyone is making it out to be otherwise. Several mags have said the TT feels faster in a straight line, but that part gets left out and the GT-R is considered faster in every way. But it will come to light soon enough.
Most if not all journalists know how to drive very well, but do NOT know how to use the 35/65 weight distribution of PORSCHES optimally.
And plus, I would never believe Best Motoring...ever.
#291
03-02-2008, 12:56 AM
Okay honestly the Best Motoring VIDEOS..area joke.. and you can take this from someone that has actually watched a Best Motoring video being shot... The truth is this.. They just through in some Racers into some cars... The fact is that most of them have never driven that car before and you never hear anything positive out of any of the drivers but the first place driver.. usually something about brakes, clutch, tires or some ****..
THEIR DRIVERS SUCK.... The videos suck..and to be honest rather watch TOP GEAR
THEIR DRIVERS SUCK.... The videos suck..and to be honest rather watch TOP GEAR
#292
04-09-2008, 08:34 AM
The car doesn’t have much of an hour glass figure. But then again it doesn’t need it because it’s not beautiful, nor is it trying to be. It is what it is. It’s a weapon. And killing isn’t pretty business.
#293
04-11-2008, 12:04 AM
Okay honestly the Best Motoring VIDEOS..area joke.. and you can take this from someone that has actually watched a Best Motoring video being shot... The truth is this.. They just through in some Racers into some cars... The fact is that most of them have never driven that car before and you never hear anything positive out of any of the drivers but the first place driver.. usually something about brakes, clutch, tires or some ****..
THEIR DRIVERS SUCK.... The videos suck..and to be honest rather watch TOP GEAR
THEIR DRIVERS SUCK.... The videos suck..and to be honest rather watch TOP GEAR
#295
04-11-2008, 02:14 PM
It definitely is not a looker, but from the initial build it grew on me to the point where I think its OK, kinda fugly but tolerable essentially.
I will never claim its as flowing as a 360CS or a GT3, but it could be worse...
Bleh, thats a sad way to describe something really.
I will never claim its as flowing as a 360CS or a GT3, but it could be worse...
Bleh, thats a sad way to describe something really.
You missed 'the wrong tyres'. They could actually make a Wallace & Gromit film with that title.
J-GTC and Le Mans professional race drivers. Unless you're Michael Schumacher, I don't see how you can make such an unqualified comment.
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