+1000

 

Could be. If David previously had a financial relationship with Switzer, perhaps some assume he continues to have such a relationship today. I don't have any firsthand knowledge regarding their relationship -- thus the reason for my question.

You have posed several questions. Let me break it down.

First, you asked: "Does it discount performance numbers?" Absolutely NOT!!! Regardless of any financial relationship between David and SPI, the car is a very impressive accomplishment that deserves our respect. Thats why my initial post began with a sincere congratulations on the impressive results.

If a financial relationship exists, is the information relevant? According to the unanimous voice of 6Speed members, the answer is yes -- see the following thread: https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...s-vendors.html .

Lastly, you asked: "Does it mean Tym tunes David's car differently than he would mine or yours?" If David has an interest in SPI, and his car is functionally a "shop car," there most certainly is the possibility that: (1) they will tune his car differently, (2) they will take greater risks with the car, and (3) because of points 1 and 2, they will be more agressive and obtain performance results that are not reflective of what a customer car would obtain. A tuner can take certain risks with a shop/investor car that he generally cannot take with a customer car because, if things go south (e.g., ventilation), he can rebuild it on the shop's dime. I am not claiming that this occurred here, and I have no information that that occurred here. Rather, I am merely answering your question and pointing out one of several reasons why a financial interest would be relevant (see prior thread for a more complete discussion). David denies any ownership interest, and we now know about a prior relationship between David and Switzer which likely explains why certain people believed they continued to have a financial relationship.

In a separate thread on the 996TT forum, I posed the question as to whether we, as members of this forum, want "ALL the facts": https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...all-facts.html . Again, the concensus among 6Speed members was that we do want "All the facts," so that consumers can make informed decisions. My inquiry of David was directed at accomplishing precisely this -- obtaining the facts. And, my inquiry was successful in that we learned that, although David does not have a current financial relationship with Switzer, he did in the past. Now, people can evaluate David's comments regarding Switzer with a better understanding of their relationship. The members of 6Speed have stated on two separate threads that this type of disclosure, of "ALL the facts," is exactly what they want and deserve!

Regards,

Craig
<O</O

 

I will share my experience with my highly modded P car .
I spend North of $80K on my build. We dynoed short of 900rwhp at 1.5 bars. My tuner felt like that was the limit so he left it alone. I'm sure he didnt want to be responsible for blowing it up on his dyno.
Since then I have spent thousands of dollars on broken axles, clutches, trips to the track, etc... all at my expense. The car has more in it and the fuel is good for 1000 rwhp. The ecu has a open loop so theoretically I can boost it to 1.7 or 1.8 bars to achieve the illusive 1000rwhp mark.
If my tuner would commit to free labor in case it pops I would gladly boost it up to get some better results on the dyno and at the track...
But for now I have to be content with 1.5 bars.
best,
Mark

 

As always Mark, I commend your candor regarding the trials and tribulations of owning a high HP Porsche.

A succinct illustration of the point I was making regarding "shop cars" and the differences in approach. If Mark had an ownership interest in Protomotive, such that they would rebuild his engine for free, I suspect he would have long ago eclipsed the 1000 rwhp mark (and might have ventilated his engine in the process) – we will never know because Mark, as a customer with no financial interest in his tuner, must proceed down a different path (thus making Mark's accomplishments all the more impressive). Many thanks <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas:contacts" /><st1:GivenName w:st="on">Mark</st1:GivenName> for your tremendous financial commitment to the evolution and expansion of Porsche tuning!

Craig<O</O

 

I can understand Marty's response to Craig. Marty himself has been assaulted for asking questions that were interpreted as veiled attacks, so he is probably (and understandably) sensitive to posts that appear as such. That coupled with Craig's long history of "stir the pot" posts resulted in such a reaction. I admit that when I first read Craig's post I said to myself "here we go again." I admit that I have met Marty personally and found him quite amicable so I am more likely to cut him some slack. Now, back to your regular programming...

 

Craig,

now you can understand why some 6speeders were bashing the EVO car on its 9 sec run as a shop car. This is exactly why - customers cannot expect to install a gt800 kit and run a 9 sec run because the shop can push the limits whereas a customer cannot.

Jag

 

I don't think EVOMS, or anyone else, ever said one can expect a 9 second pass from a standard GT800. EVOMS unquestionably and admittedly modified their shop car beyond standard GT800 limits for their run. For example, I strongly suspect they turned up the boost beyond typical GT800 levels. Most importantly, they lightened the car. I have yet to see a standard GT800 dip into the 9s, and I doubt that ever will occur.

I think the debate with the EVOMS 9 second car was that some people suggested the time should not ever count -- in other words, because it was a shop car, the time was irrelevant and meaningless. In this regard, I disagree. EVOMS' 9 second pass was a tremendous accomplishment, period! They set the record (which still stands, although perhaps not for long). Notwithstanding that they did it with a shop car, the achievement was still damn impressive. The same goes for Switzer/SPI -- although David has stated that he has no business arangement with Switzer, even if he did, that fact would not diminish their accomplishment.

If a tuner has a strawman posting accolades and data about a shop car, without revealing the underlying relationship, I think most would agree that is improper. On the other hand, if a tuner comes on here and posts their accomplishments with a shop car, there is nothing wrong with that. My only point is that the true facts should be disclosed for the various reasons set forth in this disclosure thread: https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...s-vendors.html .

Regards,

Craig

 

This is too funny....how the hell you guys come up with this **** is beyond me. If you think Tym works on anyone's cars for free you are crazy. He has a lot of overhead like every other shop out there. He could never afford to work for free. He has a business to run.

 

I never said he does... on the contrary, I said that it would take help from the shop for me to be able to perform better....otherwise I would not afford it.

 

The problem is that I am fundamentally stupid, so I have to ask a lot of questions (even then, I rarely get it). To make matters worse, I am too stupid to understand when my questions are inappropriate or unwarranted. Ignorance is bliss! On the other hand, notwithstanding my diminished mental capacity, my questions occasionally lead to interesting revelations and spirited discussions (as is the case here -- now we know about David's past business relationship with Switzer, which someone may find germane when evaluating David's posts regarding Switzer (e.g., bias)). Because of my simpleton inquiry, we now know more than we did before. This comminity has expressed a desire to know "ALL the facts," so that they can make informed decision regarding tuners/vendors. See, https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...all-facts.html and https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...s-vendors.html . I am pleased that I have helped to advance that cause and expand our database.

Regards,

Craig

 

+1.

Craig

 

Craig,
Your pure speculation and/or ('sources' feeding you this stuff) is way off base. Seems like there is a lot of childish jealousy out there?

David is fortunate to have enough resources (just look at his stable of cars) to be willing to ask Tym to test the limit of his innovative parts, standalone and tuning. You guys should be thanking David for spending his own money to help this board look for more power out of their 996/997....rather than acting childish and posting how only if some tuner would work for you for free you would have done this years ago. Someone had to be first and it is SPI with the ok from an enthusiast customer. But there is something else at work here and it's unfortunate....

I'm sure SPI nor David plan on running this car at 900whp on a stock motor every day. Tym did something no one else did for the sake of R&D so we can all benefit. Hell, I told Todd to crank up my GT2 to over 700whp on stock internals when no one else had done that 2 years ago. I can't count the number of times folks posted it was going to blow up since it was past the 650 mark and I ran it hard with ZERO ISSUES. Todd told me the risks and I accepted them. David knows the risks too and Tym tuned the car to the point he did 6 back to back 850ish whp runs without turning the car off. This was not some glory pull.

I do love the entertainment 6speed provides though!

 

Then you need to earn more money!

 

Craig, as much as I enjoy reading msot of your posts, you and I both know you are not on here to "advance the cause". You enjoy stirring the pot. I could have lied like a number of others on here do on a pretty routine basis but instead I told you the truth. That truth has zero impact on anything Tym has done on any car he has worked on. Alex spent a lot of money with Todd (well he was billed a lot of money . David spent a lot of money with Tym. There's no difference. Every shop needs a flagship customer to show off their capabilities as a shop/tuner. I have done the same with Accelerated Performance. They are now at the top of the Supra food chain because of two well known cars they have built for me....at about the same rates everyone else pays. I just get time preference whenever I want it....

So no need to try to discredit what SPI has done because David asked Tym to help him with an exhaust contract 3 years ago....

 

Wooo cowboy, pull back the reins. I never said most of the things you are attributing to me. I never said David's car was a shop car, nor that David was getting his work done for free at SPI. David says he has no current business relationship with SPI and is an arms length customer (likewise, you have posted that their prior business relationship is over). I have NO evidence to the contrary, and I will take David's (and your) word over that of my three hearsay sources. Therefore, we are not dealing with a shop car here. I applaud David's willingness to take what I consider an extraordinary risk with his car. On the other hand, Switzer and company know far more than I about such matters, so apparently the risk is not as great as I thought. Kudos to all involved for pushing the envelop -- David for the financing and backbone, and Switzer for the technical competence -- job well done!.

Regards,

Craig