My new 997TT w/Twin 30R's...
#511
09-04-2008, 10:01 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: close to the Nordschleife
Posts: 239
Rep Power: 27 
US-Tuners simply seem to be cheaper and love risk.
#512
09-04-2008, 10:14 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: close to the Nordschleife
Posts: 239
Rep Power: 27 The numbers are very real. You can put the man down if you like but what's the point? The whole goal of the "project" is to see what the Porsche 997 (Turbo) platform will withstand. Apparently there's a lot lot lot left in the motor. With Tym's standalone tune it appears that the 997 Turbo will essentially leave 100% of the sportscar market in the dust.
Everyone understands, I would think, that the more HP you make the less overall longevity you have with the components. Brakes, Tires, Turbos, Transmission, Clutch, Pistons, Rods, Main Bearings, Valves, Suspension, errrr..... what else did I miss??? so your comment is tautology and pretty useless on that basis to those who understand a basic, fundamental, universal truism that it only "runs hard as hell" until it breaks... which we all expect at some point, and at this output level, that's the test.
Thank you for the people in this world who are willing to drain $500K at a time in the name of research so that those who come after them might get a STEAL (on complete tuning packages) by acquiring the proven, tested, and accumulated knowledge from front-runners like these.
SY
Everyone understands, I would think, that the more HP you make the less overall longevity you have with the components. Brakes, Tires, Turbos, Transmission, Clutch, Pistons, Rods, Main Bearings, Valves, Suspension, errrr..... what else did I miss??? so your comment is tautology and pretty useless on that basis to those who understand a basic, fundamental, universal truism that it only "runs hard as hell" until it breaks... which we all expect at some point, and at this output level, that's the test.
Thank you for the people in this world who are willing to drain $500K at a time in the name of research so that those who come after them might get a STEAL (on complete tuning packages) by acquiring the proven, tested, and accumulated knowledge from front-runners like these.
SY
I still do not understand if this Switzer Car is sort of a prototype (or a toy of some rich guys who can afford to replace engines like motor oil) to see and experiment how far you can go until it breaks or if it is the first car of a certain tune kit that need some big advertisement here, because it will be soon available to sell (and is promised to work longer than 2-3 weekends or a half trackday)
of course you can try raise boost until it breaks but it would be luck to say the boost before the break would be stable.
I agree that proper tune a big point but even with the best zero detonation and lowest exhaust temps, best oils and more, you also extremely raise the torque as seen on the dyno plot, and what do you expect this will last???
#513
09-04-2008, 10:20 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: close to the Nordschleife
Posts: 239
Rep Power: 27 
you really think, nobody tried it? The 996 Turbo is out since 8 years. The ECU is even older. What do you think has been invented since that to get nearly twice the power without reducing the life time of the engine down to 1000 miles?
Most of the 60-130 times of so called GT700 in the hall of fame look more like sub 600 HP!!
#514
09-04-2008, 10:41 AM
RS38, you must be the head engineer in charge of Porsche's engine programs. Please then let us all know exactly how many miles the 997TT stock internals will last with the following HP levels given combined street and track use:
500HP:
600HP:
700HP:
800HP:
900HP:
Thanks in advance.
#515
09-04-2008, 12:29 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: close to the Nordschleife
Posts: 239
Rep Power: 27
no offense please!
any tuner outside europe may find some genious ways to get out a max of the engine but there are some physical limits. It's like the high revving race engines that need much more maint. and rebuilds. Look at the quarter mile top fuel dragsters, they open the engine after every run.
It's not a matter of power (if given enough cooling) but torque, how long certains pieces in the power train can last.
if you reach a certain limit it would be more a matter of luck when it breaks and the probabbility of braking for sure is increasing not linear but exponentially.
I like the extreme way you mod your cars it gives a completely new view to things so at the end of the day one can learn from each other. But I am not sure how honest most claims are, because it seems here is a lot of advertising involved.
any tuner outside europe may find some genious ways to get out a max of the engine but there are some physical limits. It's like the high revving race engines that need much more maint. and rebuilds. Look at the quarter mile top fuel dragsters, they open the engine after every run.
It's not a matter of power (if given enough cooling) but torque, how long certains pieces in the power train can last.
if you reach a certain limit it would be more a matter of luck when it breaks and the probabbility of braking for sure is increasing not linear but exponentially.
I like the extreme way you mod your cars it gives a completely new view to things so at the end of the day one can learn from each other. But I am not sure how honest most claims are, because it seems here is a lot of advertising involved.
#516
09-04-2008, 12:43 PM
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The Woodlands, TX
Age: 57
Posts: 1,934
Rep Power: 105 
The sub-5 second 60-130 time verifies the power claims. Nobody expects the engine to last as long as a completely stock, factory tuned car. The candle may burn twice as bright, but for half as long. No argument there.
#517
09-04-2008, 12:51 PM
no offense please!
any tuner outside europe may find some genious ways to get out a max of the engine but there are some physical limits. It's like the high revving race engines that need much more maint. and rebuilds. Look at the quarter mile top fuel dragsters, they open the engine after every run.
It's not a matter of power (if given enough cooling) but torque, how long certains pieces in the power train can last.
if you reach a certain limit it would be more a matter of luck when it breaks and the probabbility of braking for sure is increasing not linear but exponentially.
I like the extreme way you mod your cars it gives a completely new view to things so at the end of the day one can learn from each other. But I am not sure how honest most claims are, because it seems here is a lot of advertising involved.
any tuner outside europe may find some genious ways to get out a max of the engine but there are some physical limits. It's like the high revving race engines that need much more maint. and rebuilds. Look at the quarter mile top fuel dragsters, they open the engine after every run.
It's not a matter of power (if given enough cooling) but torque, how long certains pieces in the power train can last.
if you reach a certain limit it would be more a matter of luck when it breaks and the probabbility of braking for sure is increasing not linear but exponentially.
I like the extreme way you mod your cars it gives a completely new view to things so at the end of the day one can learn from each other. But I am not sure how honest most claims are, because it seems here is a lot of advertising involved.
So, you didn't answer my question regarding what you know the engine life will be based on power output. Feel free to use torque levels instead of HP if that makes you feel better, since they are (obviously) related based on RPM.
<O
</O
#518
09-04-2008, 01:00 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Minneapolis, Mn
Age: 48
Posts: 16,073
Rep Power: 1069
By your experience, what should a 700 crank hp car run 60-130 in?
#519
09-04-2008, 01:06 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: close to the Nordschleife
Posts: 239
Rep Power: 27
that's the point! there is no linear dependency. the candle only burns less than a fraction of half as long...
#520
09-04-2008, 01:08 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: close to the Nordschleife
Posts: 239
Rep Power: 27
depends on the weight.
a friend of mine drives a Gemballa 996 Gt2 with true 700 crank HP, he did the metric 100-200 kph in 5.2x sec several times with no slope.
a friend of mine drives a Gemballa 996 Gt2 with true 700 crank HP, he did the metric 100-200 kph in 5.2x sec several times with no slope.
#521
09-04-2008, 01:13 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: close to the Nordschleife
Posts: 239
Rep Power: 27 talking of max. torque is much more realible instead of talking about HP@rpm, where the max. torque is no more present. beginning with metric 800NM it becomes to decrease life. everything less can last nearly forever.
#522
09-04-2008, 01:33 PM
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Gates Mills, Ohio
Posts: 876
Rep Power: 0 I feel there are different opinions about the purpose of the car...
I still do not understand if this Switzer Car is sort of a prototype (or a toy of some rich guys who can afford to replace engines like motor oil) to see and experiment how far you can go until it breaks or if it is the first car of a certain tune kit that need some big advertisement here, because it will be soon available to sell (and is promised to work longer than 2-3 weekends or a half trackday)
of course you can try raise boost until it breaks but it would be luck to say the boost before the break would be stable.
I agree that proper tune a big point but even with the best zero detonation and lowest exhaust temps, best oils and more, you also extremely raise the torque as seen on the dyno plot, and what do you expect this will last???
I still do not understand if this Switzer Car is sort of a prototype (or a toy of some rich guys who can afford to replace engines like motor oil) to see and experiment how far you can go until it breaks or if it is the first car of a certain tune kit that need some big advertisement here, because it will be soon available to sell (and is promised to work longer than 2-3 weekends or a half trackday)
of course you can try raise boost until it breaks but it would be luck to say the boost before the break would be stable.
I agree that proper tune a big point but even with the best zero detonation and lowest exhaust temps, best oils and more, you also extremely raise the torque as seen on the dyno plot, and what do you expect this will last???
#523
09-04-2008, 02:27 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Brentwood, TN
Age: 48
Posts: 405
Rep Power: 47 well, i can tell you for sure it has lasted longer than 2 - 3 weekends. we have logged over 500 miles on the car over the last 6 months testing at WOT as well as drivability. we have logged over 140 dyno pulls with probably more than 20 pulls over 800 rwhp and more than half the pulls over 700 rwhp. this would definitely equate to more than 2 - 3 weekends or 1/2 a track day. everybody knows the wick will burn quicker at these power levels. anybody with reasonable knowledge or experience in these types of cars would expect to have the car freshened up on a yearly basis. it the car needs certain parts, then they are replaced. i have asked tym to build my car so that i can reasonably expect to enjoy the car for a season. i plan to drive it every chance i get and will proabably log 6000 - 8000 miles per year. if i have to invest $10K per year to freshen it up and replace any parts that need replacing, then i will be a very happy customer. if you want your 4 yr/ 50K mile warranty, then keep it stock!
Aaron
#524
09-04-2008, 07:34 PM
Which is equal to approximately a 6.1-6.2 second 60-130. Quick car that is probably making more than 700 HP.
Last edited by Divexxtreme; 09-04-2008 at 07:46 PM.
#525
09-04-2008, 07:41 PM
Most of the 60-130 times of so called GT700 in the hall of fame look more like sub 600 HP!!
Regardless, don't let it bother you so much that US tuners are making faster accelerating Porsches than German tuners are. Acceleration is our niche.
Last edited by Divexxtreme; 09-04-2008 at 07:46 PM.