HotRodGuy, I can't decide if you are too biased or just too ignorant to grasp the concept of the lemon law or a buy-back. Regardless, I am not going to argue with you anymore. You know more than me and you are right about everything.

For anyone else interested, I have intimate knowledge of an Audi buy-back. It was handled professionally without threats or lawyers. The lemon laws are consumer friendly and the penalties are extremely stiff if the manufacturer jerks you around. Porsche can do the math. They want this fixed or way or another. SaintlySins is handling himself professionally and PCNA will make this right for him.

 

I really feel for you. It sounds like you will get something worked out though.

You last paragraph caught my eye... Was this info from PCNA, the dealer, or someone else? Rumors of no 2009 997TT's have swirled around the internet but have been mostly discounted. If you can, I would appreciate it if you could elaborate on what you were told. Thanks.

 

Drum roll please . . .

And, on cue, the resident Lemon Law expert materializes. Every car forum has one . . .

No offense intended, but if you aren't an attorney who is well-versed in New Jersey law, e.g., statutory interpretation of the NJ Lemon Law, legislative history, key preceidential cases, etc., it would be foolish to rely on your bald opinions. The best advice re the Lemon Law is to go and ask an attorney who knows the law in the forum state. The initial consult would likely be free of charge and you would get the definitive information within a confidential and fiduciary relationship. He needs more than the Reno-based Lemon Law expert from the Internet forum who he has never met and could be a 12-year old kid with nice research skills (see how silly that sounds when you read it back a few times). Not saying you are misleading him or that you are wrong. He just can't hang his hat on your well-intentioned but uninformed opinion.

It has been my experience that no Lemon Law is without multiple interpretations in the hands of a good lawyer and cases can go either way. You need rock solid help to negotiate that minefield. Which, in the end, may be the best reason not to go down the Lemon Law road . . .

Just my humble opinion.

 

Thanks to both “BARRISTER” and “SPARKHILL” for looking out for my best interest.
“Barrister”, I will say that I did look into (and have a handful of lawyers on retainer at the office – although not correlated to the Auto Industry certainly with friends that are – and two of their friends are biting on the bit for this case promising I can make money on this - after their fees! No stranger to the law myself (but far from an attorney), I have read the “basic” NJ Lemon Law principals, and this case is one I would try myself … (I know, I know … that’s high-school-drop-out & high-on-coke-talk ). I’m not saying your advice AND CRITIQUE of “SparkHill’s” comments are without merit, as everything you’ve said here and other posts, is held in high regard by me. But these NJ Lemon Laws are so cut and dry Houdini & David Blaine</ST1 together couldn’t find a way out of them if the case is presented well. Whether “SparkHill” knows something about them or not, in this case (NJ) he’s right on spot. PCNA and the Dealership sure seem to be working harder at resolution than they tried to sell the car to me once they found out there’s no way they could get a replacement engine in the car and back to me in a timely fashion. Now that we know they may not be able to even give me a replacement car if we don’t settle within a week or two and get my replacement order in, they’re really pushing to button this up.
As I said before … I just want a resolution that doesn’t leave me at financial loss in a “worst case scenario” whether that be a month after I get it back or many years down the road. I don’t really want to go to court or mediation for all this crap. I’m solution minded – but not to be taken advantage of without swinging back with force and vengence.
“Sparkhill” thanks for your defensive words on my behalf. Although, I wouldn’t have questioned someone’s intelligence and start name-calling, as it may tend to fall into a 13<SUP>th</SUP> grade argument and parties tend to loose site of what they’re intentions were to begin with. Your ‘text-tone’ does sound a little tough on HotRodGuy, and your mentioning of another Lemon Law case does not in anyway support this case … but I thank you! You’ll certainly be considered an ally! First toast is to you at the BBQ! <O</O
Don’t mean to come across as anyone’s Mother here, just trying to keep my two best allies from turning on each other! You guys are great. <O</O
On to the second part of “Sparkhill’s” question. I can only repeat what I’ve been told, (until I sign the form that prevents me from discussing the settlement), and that was; If I didn’t get my order into production within the week, I wouldn’t have the opportunity to get a new Turbo Cab until ‘sometime’ in the next 2 years. Seems the 998 series is on its way, and Turbo Cab’s aren’t released for several years after a new production is in play.
This leaves me in a bad position regarding a replacement car – as my argument for the replacement was NOT to get a 2008 delivered in August, but bump a month and get a first run 2009 Turbo Cab!
I too am checking to see how true this is.
Anyone else have answers to the 998 delivery schedule?

 

Yea, you are right. I was probably too dismissive of dissenting opinions. I was not trying to insult anyone's intelligence but rather intended "ignorant" to infer the condition of being uninformed. Regardless, I would like to extend my apologies. It sounds like you have some options but none are perfect. Having gone through something very similar to you in 2002 with my own dream car at the time, I really do sympathize with your dilemma. I hope it all works out for you.

I remain interested in your MY 2009 options. I was planning to order a 2009 997TT coupe and was expecting updated PCM, minor power increase to 500 HP, DFI, minor exterior styling changes, and a 3-10% price increase. I guess it is possible the coupe will not be available until 2009 as a MY 2010 with the cab to follow a year later. If that is the case, I am a little disappointed as I was hoping to have the car by this fall. Let us know if you hear anything.

 

No, I understand it fully. I've had two cars recently lemoned in my immediately familyh (both 7 series BMW's ironically).

I am well aware of how it works. Car went into dealership...they found the problem. Said they needed to replace the motor. Owner of the car is pushing back saying he wants a new car, etc...this is delaying the new motor and making it beyond the "20 days".

As Barrister said, the laws can be interpreted many ways. Which is why I say he doesn't have a claim against a lemon law. They have found the problem and they want to fix it. We were lucky with BMW being a breeze to deal with, but the cars spent multiple times in the shop for the same problem and couldn't be fixed. When I did approach a lawyer he told me not even to bother with the legal route because BMW would make right.....and they did.


This is obviously a subject many disagree on, seems half say take the replacement motor and be happy, other half say...fight it for a new car. We'll see what happens.

 

see my apology above

 

any update?

 

I know you got some mixed feedback, but I was curious if you would give us an update

 

HERE ARE THE FINAL RESULTS:
Although it’s been quite an ordeal, I have been able to get more than I anticipated, although ... not in the time-frame I was hoping for. If you search on multiple web-site forums, you’ll find several threads started with the same, or similar situations. Most of the people who start these threads AND get a new car have to sign a release form stating they’ll not discuss the terms of the agreement – hence the reason those threads died off. I will have to do the same – as we agreed to terms and they’re Fed-Ex-ing the paperwork to me. Until then, I will share what I can without mentioning dollar amounts or voiding what has been agreed to.
Although I had explored multiple options, in the end I had narrowed it down to either of two processes;
1. I would have taken a replacement car for even money – ONLY IF THEY GOT IT TO ME WITHIN 45 DAYS! Of course it would have to be built to my specifications exactly like the first one.
Those that think this scenario impossible, please understand that profitable production-line assemblies, expect failure on the production line as part of the build process and allow for such shortcomings to be added into the end of each build cycle (part of the Six Sigma manufacturing philosophies), in this allowance is place for such shortcomings at any point after sale to end user. As some forum members have shown me, they’ve been able to get this done, if the order comes from the right person. Getting to the right person is the secret that still remains a mystery in my territory. Seems the Mid-West Regional Manager(s) and Canadian Managers, have an inside connection and are able to get things done the East and West Regional Managers can’t or won’t. (And you can’t step outside your region for help – I tried! )

OR ...

2). I would allow a “replacement engine” (crate) from the factory (Not a dealer re-build), AND they’d have to give me back 25% of what I paid to compensate me for the devaluation of the car. I was more than insistent about financial compensation if they were going to give me a replacement engine. Seems they thought if enough people told me I’d have to take a replacement engine as “it’s a warrantee issue and Porsche is within their rights to replace the engine”, that I would have backed down and sucked-it-up. To their chagrin, I agreed with them it was a warrantee item, but I was also within my rights to get financial compensation for the devaluation of the vehicle. And this is where the gray/legal area comes into play. They said the car has such a demand as it wouldn’t devalue the car more than 5 to 7 percent. I said that was based over the ‘Best Case Scenario’ – being the car wouldn’t be sold for several years to come and it was kept in perfect condition. My argument was under “Worst Case Scenario” which would have been; A) Every (almost) insurance company devalues the car with a replacement engine should it be considered a “total-loss” in an accident. If that were the case, the average depreciation of the vehicle with a replacement engine was close to 22 to 28%. I presented the insurance form you have to fill in for any newly insured vehicle; the one where you have to check off if it has; Air Bags, Alarm, CD Player, CD Changer, etc ... well that also has a section where you have to declare if it has a replacement engine too. If you fill this in correctly (as I’d have to by law), you get a letter stating your insured value has been depreciated should there be a “Total Loss” declared on your vehicle, and THAT is what I EXPECTED them to compensate me for.
Or, if circumstances forced me to sell the car within 3 months after getting it back, who would willingly pay top dollar for a car that had a replacement engine after 180 miles, on it just a few months ago?
I also asked them why the “Law” does not require I tell a buyer the car was in an accident, yet it’s considered fraud to not disclose a replacement engine was installed. I submitted several letters of actual re-sale depreciation of high-end performance vehicles with replacement engines, explaining with each letter I only wanted them to match that depreciation and I’d accept a replacement engine.
BUT ... Here’s how it turned out:
The results are small parts of many pressures including: A). N.J. Lemon Laws take effect the 20th day you are without a vehicle for a single issue (this is a simplified statement of terms & I'm generalizing). I was without a car for 31 days, there were no replacement engines in North America and to get one shipped over would take 14 days at best. B). I had a great case as N.J. Lemon Laws are soooo in the buyers favor. C). Although it wouldn’t have made it to court for 2 years, that time is to be considered in the suit along with my attorney fees. D). They knew I had no problems going to court on this.
So they (PCNA and the Dealer), agreed to buy my car back from me. It’s far more profitable for a dealer to re-sell a replacement engine Turbo Cab with documentation, then to compensate me for the difference in depreciation. I put up a fight for these parts, but in the end they compensated me for every penny, right down to one months insurance increase from a Carrera 4 Cab to a Turbo Cab and the entire loan including interest, doc fees, and license plate fees – in addition, significant monies for my time, energy and effort.
They are going to replace the car to my exact spec’s --- but I’d have to wait for a June build placement and a July/August delivery.
In addition, I will get financial compensation (a substantial discount) from the Dealer on the replacement vehicle. This was certainly cheaper for them than going to court – and brought a resolution much quicker.
But I also wanted compensation for having to wait so damn long! It was acknowledged others can get into current build cycles for replacement, why not me? So I worked a deal with every different division in the entire Porsche hierarchy and through different departments, will get additional compensation. A lot of the divisions and departments don’t communicate with each other. If you work a deal with one division, do not mention you’re dealing with another division and continue to work whatever compensation each department can give you. It took me several weeks to realize this – but once I did – the game was mine and I played it to the best of my abilities. Although I have to wait a long time for my replacement car, I’m also getting further compensation for the wait and the angst I went through. Not my preference, but I'm accepting the wait on a brand new car with all the discounts and compensations each division of Porsche has provided. In fact, one of the divisions couldn’t give me monies – so I got them to give me and my girl a wardrobe of shirts, hats, jackets, key fobs, luggage, etc.
This is about all I’m allowed to disclose at this time. I will say, once the bickering was over, and we came to an “agreement of terms”, it was if a war was over and we were all working together to make things go swimmingly. I’m sure I’ve made some enemies along the way, but I’ve kept my self-respect, honor and dignity, I wasn’t a push-over, and most importantly to me, I didn’t accept losses for other's mistakes or incompetence’s. Although things are only a signature away, I can tell my endless fight and persistent vigor to righteousness has turned my biggest adversary at the dealership into my strongest supporter and managed to get more than what was agreed upon.

On another note, there were people on this forum who suggested I just take the replacement engine or predicted replacement was all I’d ever get and advised me to just give up. There were others who wished me luck and encouraged me to ‘put-up-the-good-fight’ for righteousness and honor (both my own honor, and the honor we feel the brand represents). I want to thank both sides of the advice. Yes both, as those who were convinced I was only going to get a replacement engine, just made me fight harder for what was right!
Then ... there were the two people who contacted me personally, that wasted my time, energy and efforts with stories of ‘inside connections’ and stories of ‘knowing someone in PCNA management that were high on the ladder’ that with a phone call or two could “make things happen” ---- I advise you keep your empty-promises-of-hope to yourselves. I’ve become someone you do not want to run into at any automotive or Porsche event. And if I see any of you offering your false-hopes on any forum I will reveal you for the BS Artist you are. You’re an appalling example of an enthusiast, a waste of precious oxygen and a disgrace to the Porsche brand.
But an EXTRA SPECIAL THANK YOU to four forum posters (two from this site and the other two from other sites), who contacted me personally. They not only shared similar stories, but had true insights to the way Porsche acted and reacted to actions they made. This helped me immensely and I was able to tune my arguments for better results. For the record, two of the four did get replacement vehicles, and one has a court-case pending. As you’ve all shared your experience, it motivated me to try harder and ‘put-up-the-good-fight’ for what is available if you stand up for your rights as a consumer.
Finally, one last thing I’ve discovered during all my efforts. Seems the reason Porsche doesn’t have a lot of negative history on Engine Block Porosity is because this problem isn’t reported as “warrantee replacement” if they can prove ANY engine mod’s have been done. (NOTE: I said ‘engine mods’, not exhaust, intake or cosmetic) Seems a lot of tuners and people who have modified chips, and/or computer turbo management re-mapping already know this, and is also why you can’t find complete (crate) Turbo engines available in North America. Since these changes void the warrantee, they don’t get reported as defective, yet all the spare engines are spoken for. Several forum members have shared their story of this hard lesson with me.
Thank you again everyone. I am grateful for all your support. I’ll let you know when the new sled arrives.

 

wow, congrats on the resolution and for also explaining the process you went thru!

 

You did it.. congrats! Hard work rewarded. I'm glad you got what you wanted. Good luck with the new car.

 

Congrats on getting a good result.

 

Congrats bud, good job

 

AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, couldnt b happier for u.
thanks for taking the time to explain the process u went through and hopefully u can get to really enjoying the car u are awaiting. See u on the roads, i live in NYC and drive a white 997s... look around