3M clear plastic film
#17
05-20-2008, 02:29 PM
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Age: 73
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First off I think to many people worry way to much about which film instead of who is installing it. If your installer sucks it doesn't matter which film you use - it will look like crap. I was at my dealership a few weeks ago and saw a 911 with film and the job was so bad it was laughable.
I think many (certainly those in the northeast) would agree that Detailing Dynamics is as good as anyone in the business. I had them do my car and had very lenghty conversations with Matt about which film to use. He would have gladly used either one (would probably prefer to install VS as it's much easier to do) but after speaking with them I was convinced that 3M was the best choice for me. The orange peel is minimal and noticed only at certain angles. I've been at many car meets and have seen people bending and tilting their head looking at my car trying to see the film. It's been on my car a year and has not changed colors at all. White may be a problem but I think it will be a probem with any film.
I've also heard many people say that VS will last much longer - it's only been around a couple of years, right? How would you know?
To the OP - find a great installer and go with the film that makes you comfortable.
I think many (certainly those in the northeast) would agree that Detailing Dynamics is as good as anyone in the business. I had them do my car and had very lenghty conversations with Matt about which film to use. He would have gladly used either one (would probably prefer to install VS as it's much easier to do) but after speaking with them I was convinced that 3M was the best choice for me. The orange peel is minimal and noticed only at certain angles. I've been at many car meets and have seen people bending and tilting their head looking at my car trying to see the film. It's been on my car a year and has not changed colors at all. White may be a problem but I think it will be a probem with any film.
I've also heard many people say that VS will last much longer - it's only been around a couple of years, right? How would you know?
To the OP - find a great installer and go with the film that makes you comfortable.
I agree totally with your comment about the quality of the installation is of prime importance. Detailing Dynamics did a great job on my install and the orange peel is hardly noticeable. I just think that Venture's ability to cover the entire hood is VERY important and tilts the table towards their product.
#18
05-20-2008, 03:14 PM
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Matt, I don't see your post as attacking me personally. I'm only expressing my own opinions based on what I've actually used on all of my cars. I share from personal experience what I've observed. I originally had 3M film on my 997TT but felt it was a "poor" product because of the way it actually caused the covered vs non-covered portions to look like slightly different shades of blue. At the time I was unaware of VentureShield but at the insistence of my brother who had just had VS installed on his car, I decided to give VS a try. I've since then had two different types of VS material, the original and then the newer version with clearcoating applied and I must say that I'm very satisfied with the newest version. I don't find this material to be any more inferior than the original 3M material I had previously. In fact, I still have the 3M material on my silver Range Rover and to me they're about the same in terms of durability against the weather, contaminants, etc. Both are susceptible to bug stains which eventually goes away with time. But however I find the VS material to be "better" to me as a consumer optically. You may not agree with me on that but you're certainly entitled to your opinion. I'm just stating the facts based on my own experiences as a consumer who has been exposed to several different types of clear films available. And like Duffy said, I find the fact that VS comes in wider rolls to be very important because I did want full hood coverage. And yes, the quality of the install is also very important too. I recently saw a 997TT that was done so poorly that I had to laugh about it. You could see that it was hand cut in squiggy lines in several places.
Thank you, Matt, however for correcting my misconceptions about why 3M had bought VentureShield. I was just told that they bought them out but the real reasons were left to chance.
Bottom line is, as Chris said...go with whoever makes you the most comfortable. I agree with that 110%.
Thank you, Matt, however for correcting my misconceptions about why 3M had bought VentureShield. I was just told that they bought them out but the real reasons were left to chance.
Bottom line is, as Chris said...go with whoever makes you the most comfortable. I agree with that 110%.
#19
05-20-2008, 03:20 PM
Matt - You installed the 3M product on my car. Your stament that "the top-coated Venture is not much better than the 3M" is very disappointing. I wanted the Venture material on my hood due to its size and ability to cover the entire hood. You told me it was a defective product and you would not use it. Now you are saying it is a slightly better product, "not much better", but, nevertheless better. I do see a slight orange peel with the 3M on my hood, but what is really offensive is the line across the hood about 10 inches below the windshield. When the light is reflecting off the hood in a certain way, it looks like the hood is two different shades.
I don't think I made myself clear. I was responding to what the gentleman said about Venture being "much better" by saying it is "not much better". In my opinion, it is not better at all. That is why we install 3M at our shop. I also never said that Venture is defective. From purely an installer's point of view, I would rather install Venture b/c it costs less and it easier to install. The reason I suggested 3M on your hood is b/c you are located over 4 hours away from me and if you got a mark/damage (like a bird dropping) on the Venture, which in all probability would not be able to be polished out, how disappointed would you be if you had to drive to our shop again for us to replace the film (even if it was under warranty)? While on the 3M I could easily ship you the product to polish it out yourself. Even on my own car, the Venture has a mark from the squegee that does not come out - and I've tried every measure that was suggested.
I still stand by the advice I gave you as it was based on real world experience learned over 8 years of installing PPF and not some hype I read on the internet. Your film ends only 4 inches from the end the hood. Like I stated to you on the phone, if you care about the way the film looks today, then 3M would not be the best choice; but if you care about the way the film looks years from now, 3M is the best choice.
Matt
#20
05-20-2008, 03:22 PM
Matt, I don't see your post as attacking me personally. I'm only expressing my own opinions based on what I've actually used on all of my cars. I share from personal experience what I've observed. I originally had 3M film on my 997TT but felt it was a "poor" product because of the way it actually caused the covered vs non-covered portions to look like slightly different shades of blue. At the time I was unaware of VentureShield but at the insistence of my brother who had just had VS installed on his car, I decided to give VS a try. I've since then had two different types of VS material, the original and then the newer version with clearcoating applied and I must say that I'm very satisfied with the newest version. I don't find this material to be any more inferior than the original 3M material I had previously. In fact, I still have the 3M material on my silver Range Rover and to me they're about the same in terms of durability against the weather, contaminants, etc. Both are susceptible to bug stains which eventually goes away with time. But however I find the VS material to be "better" to me as a consumer optically. You may not agree with me on that but you're certainly entitled to your opinion. I'm just stating the facts based on my own experiences as a consumer who has been exposed to several different types of clear films available. And like Duffy said, I find the fact that VS comes in wider rolls to be very important because I did want full hood coverage. And yes, the quality of the install is also very important too. I recently saw a 997TT that was done so poorly that I had to laugh about it. You could see that it was hand cut in squiggy lines in several places.
Thank you, Matt, however for correcting my misconceptions about why 3M had bought VentureShield. I was just told that they bought them out but the real reasons were left to chance.
Bottom line is, as Chris said...go with whoever makes you the most comfortable. I agree with that 110%.
Thank you, Matt, however for correcting my misconceptions about why 3M had bought VentureShield. I was just told that they bought them out but the real reasons were left to chance.
Bottom line is, as Chris said...go with whoever makes you the most comfortable. I agree with that 110%.
#21
05-20-2008, 04:13 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Pittsburgh Area
Age: 73
Posts: 1,946
Rep Power: 169 Hi Duffy,
I don't think I made myself clear. I was responding to what the gentleman said about Venture being "much better" by saying it is "not much better". In my opinion, it is not better at all. That is why we install 3M at our shop. I also never said that Venture is defective. From purely an installer's point of view, I would rather install Venture b/c it costs less and it easier to install. The reason I suggested 3M on your hood is b/c you are located over 4 hours away from me and if you got a mark/damage (like a bird dropping) on the Venture, which in all probability would not be able to be polished out, how disappointed would you be if you had to drive to our shop again for us to replace the film (even if it was under warranty)? While on the 3M I could easily ship you the product to polish it out yourself. Even on my own car, the Venture has a mark from the squegee that does not come out - and I've tried every measure that was suggested.
I still stand by the advice I gave you as it was based on real world experience learned over 8 years of installing PPF and not some hype I read on the internet. Your film ends only 4 inches from the end the hood. Like I stated to you on the phone, if you care about the way the film looks today, then 3M would not be the best choice; but if you care about the way the film looks years from now, 3M is the best choice.
Matt
I don't think I made myself clear. I was responding to what the gentleman said about Venture being "much better" by saying it is "not much better". In my opinion, it is not better at all. That is why we install 3M at our shop. I also never said that Venture is defective. From purely an installer's point of view, I would rather install Venture b/c it costs less and it easier to install. The reason I suggested 3M on your hood is b/c you are located over 4 hours away from me and if you got a mark/damage (like a bird dropping) on the Venture, which in all probability would not be able to be polished out, how disappointed would you be if you had to drive to our shop again for us to replace the film (even if it was under warranty)? While on the 3M I could easily ship you the product to polish it out yourself. Even on my own car, the Venture has a mark from the squegee that does not come out - and I've tried every measure that was suggested.
I still stand by the advice I gave you as it was based on real world experience learned over 8 years of installing PPF and not some hype I read on the internet. Your film ends only 4 inches from the end the hood. Like I stated to you on the phone, if you care about the way the film looks today, then 3M would not be the best choice; but if you care about the way the film looks years from now, 3M is the best choice.
Matt
I went to my car and measured and you are correct. It is between 4 and 6 inches depending on where you measure do to the arc of the top of the hood. Doesn't really matter though - it is fairly noticible in certain light whether at the six inch mark or the ten inch mark. As far as the Venture film being defective, you were originally going to install Venture film on my hood (do to it's complete coverage) and 3M on the rest of the car. You called me and said the Venture film was defective and you were sending it back so you could only do the 3M on the car. As I stated, the quality of the install is fabulous but in the trade off of the line across the hood versus some extra care on the hood that the Venture film requires is a decision that everybody has to make. Personally I prefer no line. I paid 1200.00 to have my car trucked to you, bought a plane ticket to pick up the car and drove 7.5 hours home and would do it again due to the quality work. Just don't like the line due to 3Ms shorter product.
#24
05-20-2008, 04:43 PM
Hi Matt
I went to my car and measured and you are correct. It is between 4 and 6 inches depending on where you measure do to the arc of the top of the hood. Doesn't really matter though - it is fairly noticible in certain light whether at the six inch mark or the ten inch mark. As far as the Venture film being defective, you were originally going to install Venture film on my hood (do to it's complete coverage) and 3M on the rest of the car. You called me and said the Venture film was defective and you were sending it back so you could only do the 3M on the car. As I stated, the quality of the install is fabulous but in the trade off of the line across the hood versus some extra care on the hood that the Venture film requires is a decision that everybody has to make. Personally I prefer no line. I paid 1200.00 to have my car trucked to you, bought a plane ticket to pick up the car and drove 7.5 hours home and would do it again due to the quality work. Just don't like the line due to 3Ms shorter product.
I went to my car and measured and you are correct. It is between 4 and 6 inches depending on where you measure do to the arc of the top of the hood. Doesn't really matter though - it is fairly noticible in certain light whether at the six inch mark or the ten inch mark. As far as the Venture film being defective, you were originally going to install Venture film on my hood (do to it's complete coverage) and 3M on the rest of the car. You called me and said the Venture film was defective and you were sending it back so you could only do the 3M on the car. As I stated, the quality of the install is fabulous but in the trade off of the line across the hood versus some extra care on the hood that the Venture film requires is a decision that everybody has to make. Personally I prefer no line. I paid 1200.00 to have my car trucked to you, bought a plane ticket to pick up the car and drove 7.5 hours home and would do it again due to the quality work. Just don't like the line due to 3Ms shorter product.
.
#25
05-20-2008, 08:57 PM
I hate to be disagreeable, but that is not true. First of all, the reason 3M bought out Venture tape was b/c of a metallic tape which they manufactured that 3M wanted to add to their line, not b/c of the PPF. Second, the top-coated Venture is not much better than the 3M. That's just my opinion, but I have been installing PPF for over 8 years and have the Venture, 3M and XPEL film on my personal car as a guinea pig; and not one person can tell the difference between them.
Also, the one fact most people fail to disclose/understand is that 3M actually has a clear-coat and can be compounded/polished to remove any subsequent damage after installation. Venture, as well as Avery, is only top-coated and your ability to remove any damage is nearly zilch. Also, they require much more maintenance than the 3M (which should be a major consideration for those of us who live in regions with high pollution - like the northeast). And finally, there is no film in the world that can be guaranteed not to yellow for a lifetime. That's a ridiculous claim which reminds me of the Ginsu knives warranty. The biggest advantage is that Venture comes in rolls 10" wider than 3M allowing the installer to cover larger panels in one piece.
I hope I didn't come across as attacking you, but as a professional who does this for a living I really get tired of people making blanket statements that one brand of film is superior to others, period. There is no one best film; it is all a compromise which the car owner should consider before making an educated decision.
Also, the one fact most people fail to disclose/understand is that 3M actually has a clear-coat and can be compounded/polished to remove any subsequent damage after installation. Venture, as well as Avery, is only top-coated and your ability to remove any damage is nearly zilch. Also, they require much more maintenance than the 3M (which should be a major consideration for those of us who live in regions with high pollution - like the northeast). And finally, there is no film in the world that can be guaranteed not to yellow for a lifetime. That's a ridiculous claim which reminds me of the Ginsu knives warranty. The biggest advantage is that Venture comes in rolls 10" wider than 3M allowing the installer to cover larger panels in one piece.
I hope I didn't come across as attacking you, but as a professional who does this for a living I really get tired of people making blanket statements that one brand of film is superior to others, period. There is no one best film; it is all a compromise which the car owner should consider before making an educated decision.
John
#26
05-21-2008, 05:33 PM
Gotta love Google 
Scotch tape manufacturer 3M Co. announced Thursday that it has agreed to acquire Venture Tape Corp., a Massachusetts company that makes pressure-sensitive adhesive tapes.
Venture Tape makes various tapes used in construction; oil and gas; heating, ventilation and air conditioning; electronics; aerospace; marine; and appliance markets. It also makes specialty industrial tapes complementary to 3M's specialty-tape product line, which includes tapes used in splicing and automotive applications.
"This acquisition broadens our pressure-sensitive adhesive tape platform, brings new channels to 3M and allows us to expand into adjacent markets such as construction," said Patrick Deconinck, vice president of Maplewood-based 3M's industrial adhesives and tapes division, in a statement.
Rockland, Mass.-based Venture Tape employs roughly 400 people worldwide.
3M expects the deal to close in the fourth quarter. Terms were not disclosed.
http://www.bizjournals.com/twincitie...l?ana=from_rss
Scotch tape manufacturer 3M Co. announced Thursday that it has agreed to acquire Venture Tape Corp., a Massachusetts company that makes pressure-sensitive adhesive tapes.
Venture Tape makes various tapes used in construction; oil and gas; heating, ventilation and air conditioning; electronics; aerospace; marine; and appliance markets. It also makes specialty industrial tapes complementary to 3M's specialty-tape product line, which includes tapes used in splicing and automotive applications.
"This acquisition broadens our pressure-sensitive adhesive tape platform, brings new channels to 3M and allows us to expand into adjacent markets such as construction," said Patrick Deconinck, vice president of Maplewood-based 3M's industrial adhesives and tapes division, in a statement.
Rockland, Mass.-based Venture Tape employs roughly 400 people worldwide.
3M expects the deal to close in the fourth quarter. Terms were not disclosed.
http://www.bizjournals.com/twincitie...l?ana=from_rss
#28
05-22-2008, 10:00 AM
3M and Venture not difficult at all assuming the installer knows the procedure. Some of the other inferior films are a PIA as they leave all the glue on the hood. On some Porsches just the hood took us over (3) hours to remove and endless cans of chemicals.
Matt
Matt
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