How about the Angeles Crest Highway?

 

Yes, this is a good one that I have not been to, and another one is Ortega Freeway 74 in Orange County.

What I like about the Lake Hughes/California Poppy Reserve route I post above is that it is not well known at all and therefore practically empty on weekdays, and it is not all canyon/mountain roads, which would have a lot of blind corners by definition (the mountain slope always blocks one side of the road). Calif. Poppy Route has combination of both canyon and open desert roads with great visibility (the key for me), like this:

 

Actually I was thinking of that one too!

 

So I wanted to ask you a quick question, I went with a slightly modified Stage 4 setup, (slightly modified as my 997.1TT is also a daily driver), and I wanted to get your thoughts on Alignment and Camber.

Your first post mentioned doing -1.2 Front and -1.8 Rear, which are the max numbers that the stock components will allow you to do. I do have the fully adjustable control arm and am debating what to do for Camber. I see this recommends -1.2 Front and -3 Rear, however I was also told by someone that they would recommend -2 Front and -2.25 Rear, even on the street. So I wanted to get your thoughts and opinion. Thanks!

-Sayajin

 

^^^Sayajin, sorry, I think I caused a confusion with my writing. That was not a recommendation for -1.2 front, -3 rear camber setting. I was merely noting that the max you could achieve with stock components is max -1.2 front, max -3 rear. In general, camber setting examples that I have seen from various cars tend to be close to each other, with rear about -.5 more than front. -1.2 front/-3 rear has too much discrepancy front to rear.

As far as "correct" camber settings, it depends on what you are doing. Before I tell you my reasoning, maybe I should explain why negative camber is needed. During a turn, the outside suspension compresses (when you turn left, this means the right suspension), as the the right suspension compresses, it gains positive camber as a result of the suspension design (McPherson Strut in particular), as it gains positive camber, it loses traction as wheel surface is no longer parallel to surface. The negative camber is there to negate this gain in positive camber and maintain max wheel contact with road. As such, this is the first thing to remember: high negative camber is used for better and faster *cornering*, it is actually bad for straight-line performance, such as tire wear, braking, and acceleration.

Use low negative camber for street driving: I would only recommend that you try -1.2 front/-1.6 rear for now, then in a few months, check the tire wear. If your tire's wear is even across from inside to out, then that means you are OK. If your tire wears more on the outside, then congratulations, you are driving with good speed and the negative camber should be more. Conversely, if your tire wears more on the inside then negative camber should be less.

Use high negative camber for track junkies: TT Surgeon/VID/E55AMG/etc. could chime in here, but the settings here are indeed in the -2 range and I am sure they could give you some recommendations (which will all vary depending on their speed and suspension setup). Why more camber at the track? These guys are speeding into corners with exceedingly high speed, exceedingly high speed means exceedingly more compression, exceedingly more compression means more positive camber, more positive camber means you have to negate it with higher negative camber.
Outside of the track, I can't recall that any tuner/expert ever recommends camber in the 2 range, unless you are robbing a bank in the middle of a canyon road. Kidding aside, on a road coarse, we rarely get to the speed that they do in a big track for example, and high negative camber is not necessary.

I assume you have the front lower control arm right? You could try more than -1.2 and see how you like it, but do keep in mind it is a trade-off. Better cornering means worse straightline performance. And unless you take corners with very high speed, it's actually worse for handling. I drive mostly street and weekend canyon road, and my tires have been completely even across at -1.2 and -1.6, therefore the tuner has never increased camber further.

 

Thank you very much for the great info! I am going to have my shop start off with your suggested settings and we will adjust in the future if necessary!

-Sayajin

 

Cann congrats ,your very dedicated and extremely helpful posts on "suspension modifications" where seen more then 60.000 times.
cheers '

 

Cannga,

Two quick questions for you.

I want to make sure that I am correct in my understanding of the B16's with Damptronic. Is there no need to adjust the comfort level manually on them? Simply leave it at whatever the factory setting is and use the PASM to switch between comfort and sport mode? No need to change anything up front?

One other thing I noticed while looking over your alignment sheet was that there was not a setting on there for caster. That area was blank. I have a fully adjustable suspension for Caster and was wondering what you would recommend for caster settings/figures. Thanks!


-Sayajin

 

slawek, thanks for the nice comment. 5000 of the counts belongs to my edits as I learned more along the way from other people . I do enjoy these discussions greatly.

Sayajin,
1. No change to caster - this stays same as stock.
2. Yes, Bilstein Damptronic is totally automatic, just like the stock system, and that's the essential beauty of it. The damping forces will always be exactly what are considered best by Porsche test drivers. There is nothing for you to set, just like stock system.
Supposedly the car has monitors that sense road surface, yaw, accel., & multiple parameters that I don't remember off hand now, and adjust the damping automatically.

There are 2 primary differences that you will sense:
1. The car will be stiffer than before, more "bouncy" is the word people sometimes use. You do get used to it, then it will feel normal. There is no way around this trade-off of ride vs. handling.
2. The 2 settings, Normal and Sport, feel much more alike than the stock system which goes between 2 extremes of extreme soft and totally jittery. To the point that people have wondered if the Sport button is working with Bilstein. Not to worry, with time you will feel the difference.
Oh of course the last big difference is you *will* take corners like a bandit :-). Congrats!

 

So I wanted to give some additional feedback to this thread. I followed this thread almost to the "T" to build the suspension in my 997.1TT with the exception I did a full stage 4 suspension upgrade and left the Bilstein springs instead of changing them out.

For reference, I daily drive my Turbo and do a minimum of 2 track weekends a month, with me having a track weekend every weekend for the next 2 months. So it was important to me that I was able to maintain drivability however also be a force on the track. My shop installed all the components and got me aligned per Cannga's settings around 4pm Friday afternoon, I immediately jumped in the car to drive the 6hrs to NOLA Motorsports Park. One piece of info, is that I DID get the dreaded PASM error with the Bilstein when I first installed it, however my tech reset the system and it went away and did not come back, at least not yet.

With that said, I got on the track Saturday morning (HPDE 3) and it felt like I was driving a completely different vehicle. To the point I was unhappy with my first session because the line and driving techniques were SO different. However in the middle of my second session I started getting the hang of things. By my third session I was passing the GT3 that was in my class and even managed to pass the GTR that was also running in my group. By the end of the day, the ONLY person on the track faster then me was the guy with the slightly modified 2014 GTR.

Long story short, I would recommend this setup to ANYONE who is serious about doing track days and maintaining drivability. Also, please keep in mind, i DROVE my car the 6hrs to the track and BACK between the races. This setup is fantastic and I am VERY happy about the money spent. The only drawback is that I am driving so quickly that I need to replace my tires already! lol.

Thanks Cannga for a phenomenal setup and step by step guide.

-Sayajin

 

Hi Sayajin, you are very welcome and glad things work out well. Yes I agree it's a total transformation of the Turbo's handling and to me the single most important mod in my car.

Could I ask what tires are on your car now, street or R comp?

 

I am running PSS tires right now. Plan to get an additional set of rims and run R compounds/slicks in the future.

-Sayajin

 

Additionally, in response to your question regarding clearing the PASM error, my installer says that he simply disconnected the battery for a few minutes and then reconnected it and the problem went away. Hope that helps!

-Sayajin

 

My car is setup similar to what Can has suggested. Definitely sharpens up the car on the street but after tracking the car I did notice some understeer. -1.2 or whatever you can squeeze out of the front is not enough, but again as mentioned there is a trade off as you are driving 6 hours to and from the track.

Stick with the PSS until you can push the car to its limits. Best of luck

 

Thanks. I actually went with a Stage 4 setup, so I can adjust the camber in the front much more than that, however as you mentioned, I am currently driving to track days so until I get my trailer up and running, I will keep it at that.

Also, I love the performance os the PSS tires so far.

-Sayajin