One more addition. It seems to me that on power application the car leaps forward. There does not appear to be a weight transition where the rear squats and the nose comes up a little bit. It stays level and just goes forward. Pretty much the same on light to moderate brake application.

It definitely seems to turn in much easier but where I could sense a corner steering angle limit based on the sway of the car that is gone now. It drives so flat in corners that I have begun to get a better feel and sense for what the tires are reporting back to me.

I have found myself taking turns faster than before and in many cases where I might normally ease the turn and flow into the adjacent outer lane I keep the turn in hard to see if I can stay in my original lane only to be amazed and say out loud, WOW!, Incredible!

I went for a drive last night and have to say that although I know it is a little rougher ride than stock it has become the new normal and I don't seem to notice it much anymore. I'm also starting to question why the car did not come this way to begin with. I've got the tune, I've got the exhaust but I now think this should probably be the first mod made to these cars. Keep in mind I have a .2 model. For those with the softer .1 suspension the difference would probably be even more eye opening.

Lastly, not only is the handling performance improved by the coilovers and sways but the fact that the center of gravity is lowered too. Aesthetically, I really like the new look. I swapped out the Aero Kit front spoiler for the standard Turbo spoiler just for a "curb feeler" measure, but so far I have not had any issues with the lower ride height and spoiler impacts. I do take some inclines at an angle but I had to do that before anyway.

So in conclusion I am extremely happy with this new modification. Had I known it would increase the turning and high speed handling like it does I would have also done this to my last two 911's. I think Cannga is spot on with his recommendation that a qualified tech do the install! Just reading previous msgs in this thread prove him correct.

For those of you also doing this mod, I would be interested in your reports and findings on how it has changed your car and how you drive it.

Cheers,

Walt

 

I'm sure that's the case. Most indy shops are not going to be familiar with the ins and outs of installing a JRZ/Moton/Ohlins or the like. These are all fantastic suspensions that are built to order with customer selected rates specific to each application but you need a good race shop that has done these before. You can also occasionally expect a little noise with some of these applications as there in no rubber or plastic isolators used anywhere in these kits. These are race suspensions with the focus on performance over ultimate street comfort. Installation is also not as straight forward as some of the other street coilovers as evidenced by Mario's incorrect install. If the set up is done correctly, the track performance is unmatched by an out of the box street coilover. With that said however, for a street car I'd stick with the likes of the Bilsteins or KW.

Here is a video from this past weekend of my set up with the JRZs that I'm still getting dialed in. The car has been set up by a local Cup car racer/mechanic and through a lot of track testing, alignment, corner balance, shock and sway adjustment, we've managed to scrub close to 2 seconds of the lap time. It's close but work in progress... The video is on street legal R compound tires. The "bulls eye" in the lower left corner on the screen is the "G" meter. When the green dot turns yellow the car is pulling 0.9Gs and when red it's 1.1Gs. Here is also a link to my recent alignment set up thread that will shed some light on this. Enjoy..

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...r-balance.html

P.S. Mario, I will try to dig up some pics of the suspension install later today...

 

Thank you for the info.

JRZ Also told me I should expect a little sounds because of no rubber, everything is metal, so when you hit a big bump or something, there's no rubber to soften the hit, just metal.

Anyways, thank you for the help! I'll wait for those pictures. They're the only thing that could really help me out to see if my stuff is installed wrong.

We've fixed the big clunk noise, but, pictures would show me if I have something wrong.

Let me know! Thank you.


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There you go Mario....

 

Thank you!

Alright so here's the stuff I notice from your pictures and mine;

I need to put the black ring under the Drop Link arm.

I notice your Drop link arm is in a different position than mine. You can see mine is holding the Drop Link from behind the shock, like you can't read the Tarret sticker, because it's facing the front part of the car. While yours is facing the Brakes.

I'm thinking that's because of different cars though, as far as I understand, the drop link needs to be completely straight from the arm to the sway bar.


I got one question for you though... Like I mentioned before, I had my Sway Bar hitting against the car at the bottom, so I had to raise the control arm in order for the Drop Link to pull up the sway bar.

My question is... The black ring UNDER the Tarret control arm, does that NEED to be against the upright? Like SITTING on it? Or It just needs to be UNDER the Tarret arm? Because I'm not sure if I make it sit on the upright and then lower the Tarret arm again it might make the sway bar come too low and hit again.

I could always put two of those black rings though.

Advice?

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The black ring needs to be seated against the upright. It acts as a load bearing element for the shock. Right now the black ring above your swaybar bracket serves no function whatsoever. If you need to raise the sway bar then shorten the drop link as much as possible by screwing both ends into the sway bar drop link, and also screw the sway bar bracket up on the shock body itself. You have room there. This will effectively raise your sway bar as I am assuming it is contacting your lower control arm. Hope that helps.

 

That's exactly the problem I was having. The Sway bar was hitting the Lower control arm.

Ok, so the Black ring needs to sit on the upright.

But that brings another question; I'll put the black ring ontop of the upright, but if I raise the sway bar bracket on the shock, it wont be sitting on the black ring.

Is that ok?

Pretty much, The ring MUST be sitting on the upright, but the sway bar bracket doesn't need to be sitting on the ring?



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That is all correct. The sway bar bracket is secured via the "pinch bolt" on the bracket itself and does not rely on the black ring.

 

Got it. So I can raise/lower the bracket as much as needed for it to not hit the control arm.

And I'll change the black ring and put it on the Upright.

Other than that, I think my installation looks correct. Your bracket seems to be in a different position than mine, your "Tarret" sign is facing the Brakes, while mine is facing the front of the car. But I think this is because of different cars? The Drop link needs to be completely straight, right?

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Ideally the drop links should be 90 deg to the sway bar but just make sure it's close.

 

Ok,

I'll take some pictures of my Sway Bar and Drop Link this week and post them up.

My Drop Link and Arm seem to be installed differently, maybe because of the car model that it's a little different. I don't think I got it wrong on mine since there's not many options otherwise you'd break things.



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Saw the video; my God looks like someone was having fun.
I highlighted the part that emphasizes how much work (and $$$) is involved for the various track junkies on this forum. And how, no matter what you change and what you add to your cars, for serious track drivers the ultimate judge of success will have to come down to an improvement in track time. This is a lot more work than for street drivers, who are happy enough just from the subjective improvement.

Saw the settings of your car, wow, toe out setting in the rear - for the advanced drivers no doubt. I understand front toe out but the rear toe out - could you pls explain why it was used?

>>>>>
Front camber: -2.7 per side
Front toe: +0.05' total
Castor: 7.5
Rear camber:-2.3 per side
Rear toe: +0.34' total

 

Positive (+) toe IS TOE IN, not toe out. Toe out would be deadly on a rear engined 911 and would give you snap oversteer in turns and under braking due to the pendulum effect of our cars. +0.34 is actually quite a bit of toe in.

You are correct. It takes a lot of time and effort to set up the car correctly and the track is pretty much the ideal place to do it as you have an ideal SAFE and repeatable environment where you can push the car to the limit and compare and changes you make. Dataloging and analysis of corner entry/exit speeds along with G loadings is essential to make changes that will result in quantifiable improvements. All of this is essentially impossible to do on public roads.

 

Walt, this is an excellent post that touches on several important points of suspension tuning and a perfect summary of my interminable rambling over 4 years. :-) Some of the points you mentioned, less weight transfer (from lowering), less body roll and squatting/diving (from stiffening), and speed of transition of weight transfer (from stiffening - rarely discussed) are key principles and the reason why "stiffer and lower" is the mantra of supsension tuning regardless of cars.

One comment about why our car didn't come this way - it's because a lot of people want a softer more comfortable car; there is nothing wrong with this - personal preference. Second, Porsche makes GT3 and GT2 for the race track, and it's their philisophy, since 996 and 997 anyway, that the Turbo is going to be the soft grand touring car. This is why if you go to GT3 forum they have such disdain for the Turbo suspension. Yet, the philosophy works out perfectly as their financial success is proof.

I too feel that for the Turbo, suspension mod is the first thing that should be done. The whole point of this thread is to let new people know about the middle ground that could be so cheaply achieved. :-) On a scale of 1 to 10, if 1 is stock Turbo, and 10 is the GT3, then Bilstein is the 5, the middle ground that brings the car to be THE perfect daily driver. IMHO, probably the best street-track combination car that Porsche, or any company, has ever built to date. For this reason, my next Porsche will be an addition to my garage, not a replacement; the Turbo stays forever - true love LOL. Kidding aside: fast, agile, pretty, perfect seating position, perfect outward vision - what more could I ask for?

PS
Walt: Turbo S PDK with Bilstein and R compound: Wow, great and fast, very fast, car. Drive safely.
pwdrhound: sorry not fully awake yet.

 

I'm going to install my tarret drop links to tonight. I assume I just make them the same length as the old ones and both the same length? How does making them a little longer or shorter affect handling? In case I want to adjust at the track this weekend.