Pics & Review of My Bilstein PSS10 Lowered Red Turbo
#601
Looked at sonnenporscheoemparts but cant find the gt3cup LCA, any idea where to find cup parts? I probably will go with Tarret since money is an object (and my wife dont share my concern about cars behavior breaking&cornering at speed). I will test the LSD today for preload, car is going to Porsche monday for a new set of front radiators, I will ask about the LSD.
#602
If I would suggest an am LSD solution they would probably have a heart attack.
#603
I believe Tarrett also carries GT3 and Cup OEM parts, but you might want to check with pwdrhound too for his source.
BTW, the drop links are cheap and could be installed by yourself - no realignment needed, so the overall cost is next to nothing. The toe control arm will need a pro installer and realignment, but overall should not be too costly especially if you install it at same time as coilover.
I am sure you already know, but just in case: judging by your questions and taste, I believe eventually you will have to look the devil in the eyes and deal with the core of our Turbo's problem - its soft spring rates. Stiffening the spring is THE biggest improvement that will transform the feel of the Turbo, and a lot of subjective softness problems might improve also. My spring rates are 450/600 and some other people here who race cars like VID and pwdrhound have rates even much much higher.
Last edited by cannga; 05-02-2014 at 10:17 AM.
#604
Someone PM'ed me to ask about authorized Bilstein dealer and cost of installation. For me, among the best and most knowledgeable authorized dealers for Bilstein product, with I believe the cheapest price around, is AWE Tuning (no association): http://www.awe-tuning.com/make/porsche/b16-damptronic-performance-suspension-system
The installation should run about $1000-1400 or so (anyone pls correct me as needed), complete with alignment. Once again, please remember *NO* rookie should be allowed to touch your suspension system (and even pros make mistake sometimes); per my extensive web research :-) majority of suspension related problems are from to installation error (over torquing, forgetting washers, wrong side, etc.) and don't ever expect installer to admit it - be smart. An experienced installer is the key.
The installation should run about $1000-1400 or so (anyone pls correct me as needed), complete with alignment. Once again, please remember *NO* rookie should be allowed to touch your suspension system (and even pros make mistake sometimes); per my extensive web research :-) majority of suspension related problems are from to installation error (over torquing, forgetting washers, wrong side, etc.) and don't ever expect installer to admit it - be smart. An experienced installer is the key.
Last edited by cannga; 05-02-2014 at 12:05 PM.
#605
Jack up one side of the car so one rear wheel is resting on the ground and one in the air. Place gearbox in neutral and see if you can easily rotate the wheel that's off the ground. If so, than your preload is all but gone. The factory LSDs are very weak to begin with.
#606
I'm not familiar with the 997awd system. My car is RWD. You can test it this way on a 996tt with AWD. If in doubt, put the whole car on jacks so all 4 wheels are off the ground and jam something under one of the rear wheels and than try to turn the other rear wheel. Make sure your parking brake is off and gearbox is in neutral.
#607
I meant to post the following a long time ago but got lazy - about after-market sway bars and the urethane bushing that some of them come with. My GMG bars come with urethane bushing, and a lot of people don't know that unlike stock rubber bushing, after-market urethane bushing must be lubricated occasionally with Synthetic Grease (Super Lube from ebay). If you don't lubricate these bushings, the sway bar may become frozen in its axis, and subsequently may cause bending of the drop links, or even shearing off the mounting point of the drop link on the coilover.
The way to test is to completely disconnect both drop links from sway bar, and then try to swing the bar yourself; it should move freely. When I checked mine it was nearly frozen in place; I lubricated it once and since have switched back to the stock rubber bushing for peace of mind.
If urethane is such a problem, why does GMG use it? It is supposed to be more durable than the rubber counterpart. AND it does make the suspension feel firmer (yes I have switched back and forth to compare) and more planted. Very subtle, but definitely noticeable.
In picture below, black bar and black rubber bushing are stock, blue bar and red urethane bushing are GMG. The Super Lube Synthetic Grease could be purchased from ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPER-LUBE-S...-/161003162819.
The way to test is to completely disconnect both drop links from sway bar, and then try to swing the bar yourself; it should move freely. When I checked mine it was nearly frozen in place; I lubricated it once and since have switched back to the stock rubber bushing for peace of mind.
If urethane is such a problem, why does GMG use it? It is supposed to be more durable than the rubber counterpart. AND it does make the suspension feel firmer (yes I have switched back and forth to compare) and more planted. Very subtle, but definitely noticeable.
In picture below, black bar and black rubber bushing are stock, blue bar and red urethane bushing are GMG. The Super Lube Synthetic Grease could be purchased from ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPER-LUBE-S...-/161003162819.
Last edited by cannga; 05-08-2014 at 09:33 PM.
#608
One other reason that I changed back to rubber bushing is that while the rear bushing is easy to lubricate, the front one I don't know how to get to it - I think you have to take off that bottom plastic tray and even then it might be difficult getting there (Chris is it true?). In fact I had to have my tuner Lucent change the front bushing for me. Basically I am busy with work and car is daily driver; I don't want the hassle of having to bring car to a shop to lubricate that front sway bar.
For lubricant, I've read different things so not sure (anyone correct me as needed), but I believe that while you could use either SYNTHETIC or PETROLEUM based grease for polyurethane bushing, you should use only the synthetic stuff, ie the Super Lube on ebay I quoted above, for the stock Rubber bushing,
For those new to this topic, remember that after-market suspension components are not maintenance free. This bushing is one good example, but these other links with metallic (heim) joints also have to be inspected for wear and tear - they do wear. The inspection could be every couple of years for street use, and more frequently for track obviously. A little more work but in return, car handles with aggressiveness and that's why people still do it.
Sway bar is an important part of suspension tuning, if you are curious, ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW about sway bars is here, scroll to post #72: https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...d-turbo-5.html
For lubricant, I've read different things so not sure (anyone correct me as needed), but I believe that while you could use either SYNTHETIC or PETROLEUM based grease for polyurethane bushing, you should use only the synthetic stuff, ie the Super Lube on ebay I quoted above, for the stock Rubber bushing,
For those new to this topic, remember that after-market suspension components are not maintenance free. This bushing is one good example, but these other links with metallic (heim) joints also have to be inspected for wear and tear - they do wear. The inspection could be every couple of years for street use, and more frequently for track obviously. A little more work but in return, car handles with aggressiveness and that's why people still do it.
Sway bar is an important part of suspension tuning, if you are curious, ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW about sway bars is here, scroll to post #72: https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...d-turbo-5.html
Last edited by cannga; 05-09-2014 at 08:13 AM.
#609
Question for GMG spring owners please - real question :-) for a friend who is asking me, not meant to be critical at all (I think it is among the "best" lowering springs on market):
As has been discussed a few times on this forum, some people feel (as I do) that the stock 997.1 Turbo's PASM has this Jekyll and Hyde character, Normal setting is too soft and Sport setting is too stiff/jittery. Porsche engineers as well discussed this at the time of 997.2 release; how they fixed this problem with release of 997.2 Turbo (which did feel much better). My question is, what happens to this character when you add the GMG spring?
1. Does GMG spring improve both modes? I don't know if it's possible but does Normal mode feel less mushy and Sport mode feel less stiff?
2. What mode do you drive in most of the times when you have the GMG spring and why please?
3. On scale of 1 to 10 for stiffness, if stock Normal is 3 and stock Sport is 8, where would you rank the 2 modes with the GMG springs installed? Just want to have a general idea so a brief ranking would be very helpful. TIA
As has been discussed a few times on this forum, some people feel (as I do) that the stock 997.1 Turbo's PASM has this Jekyll and Hyde character, Normal setting is too soft and Sport setting is too stiff/jittery. Porsche engineers as well discussed this at the time of 997.2 release; how they fixed this problem with release of 997.2 Turbo (which did feel much better). My question is, what happens to this character when you add the GMG spring?
1. Does GMG spring improve both modes? I don't know if it's possible but does Normal mode feel less mushy and Sport mode feel less stiff?
2. What mode do you drive in most of the times when you have the GMG spring and why please?
3. On scale of 1 to 10 for stiffness, if stock Normal is 3 and stock Sport is 8, where would you rank the 2 modes with the GMG springs installed? Just want to have a general idea so a brief ranking would be very helpful. TIA
Last edited by cannga; 05-24-2014 at 05:08 AM.
#610
FYI - there seems to be a sale going on at AWE tuning for Bilstein: http://www.awe-tuning.com/make/porsche/b16-damptronic-performance-suspension-system
AWE is an authorized Bilteins dealer and the guys there are extremely knowledgeable and top notch Porsche tuners - the real thing. They will go to the extreme to help you if there is any problem. No direct connection or experience, just based on 8 years of forum observation. :-)
AWE is an authorized Bilteins dealer and the guys there are extremely knowledgeable and top notch Porsche tuners - the real thing. They will go to the extreme to help you if there is any problem. No direct connection or experience, just based on 8 years of forum observation. :-)
Last edited by cannga; 06-04-2014 at 01:23 PM.
#613
Would still REALLY like to know the spring rates of the GMG lowering springs if anyone has this info?! It's really the only thing missing from your spec list.
#614
D, RE-11 is fantastic, a lot more sporty than Michelin PSS, and will be the permanent wheel on my car now. The steering wheel has been a rather "interesting" story. I ordered beginning of May, told them several times not to put the Techart badge on. After a few weeks, the first wheel came. It was gorgeous, thick, the mid section, where you hold the wheel, has perforated leather that looks so cool. AND it had an ugly Techart badge!
So we re-ordered, and the second wheel came a couple of weeks ago. It was also gorgeous, thick, AND it has no perforated leather! I did not know whether to laugh or to cry; for sure Germany Techart is not the same as Germany soccer.
The third wheel is in order. It is somewhat comical what has happened, and I am putting up with it because besides the beautiful look, the thicker grip diameter feels fantastic in the hands. I can't go back to the thinner stock wheel, which after 7 years has leather that is hardened, shiny, and too slippery.
Last edited by cannga; 08-14-2014 at 05:47 PM.
#615
One thing to note is that all lowering springs for the Turbo AFAIK are *progressive*, meaning they have one initial soft rate, and one final stiffer rate, making comparison to coilover difficult. Most, if not all, coilovers use linear spring - one rate only, because this response linearity is desirable. In comparison, a progressive spring for example may feel softer at first, but stiffen up depending on how fast you are taking the corner.