I like it that you are using all top notch components in your car. May I suggest also the Techart wheel. Please TRUST me I didn't expect it at all but the muscular Techart wheel transforms the subjective steering feel. A new steering wheel also makes the car feels new LOL.

With street tires like Michelin PSS, 32/34 psi cold (meaning you measure before driving the car - before tires heat up) is LOW for the rear tire. I would think 32/38 are more in line with recommendation. In fact I am surprised your TPMS did not show alarm warning at 34 psi rear?

IN GENERAL and with a street suspension, the rear of 997 Turbo tire should be about 6 psi higher than the front. This is primarily because of the rear weight bias of 911 rear engine platform.

 

I will make those changes in the tyre pressure. Thanks.

This seems like telepathy. I WAS Looking at the Techart steering wheel

On the last drive i drove in manual mode and kept the rpm hovering above 3000. And rightly so the drone is nearly gone. I was grinning hearing the Capristo's wide open. And the passerby's were wondering......

What i have noticed is that the Bilstein Damptronic is more bearable if i maintain city speed above 25mph or more. But i still need to try the TPC DSC box.

And the GT3 seats are coming.. More to follow.. Thanks again

 

If you haven't done so yet use tire gauge with digital readout. I could sense differences in street driving feel with as little as 1 psi change. Also note that reading from the car's TPMS could be off by as much as 1-2 psi when compared with a reference tire pressure gauge (Tpms tends to read LOWER than actual btw, ie good tire gauge reads 33, tpms reads 31.). I use a good quality Longacre tire pressure gauge.

I understand for others outside the car the sound from a good after-market exhaust could be quite terrifying (literally like a jet). My first traffic ticket was the first day that I had my Cargraphic. The cop was quite upset at me - "didn't you hear my siren!?"

I don't make my recommendation lightly, and the Techart wheel is recommended without reservation. Over time, the stock steering wheel's leather becomes smooth and hardened, making grip difficult and feeling not so nice. Not only the Techart wheel gives you new leather, the increased front-to-back thickness at 3 and 9 o'clock position is terrific. It makes a huge difference.

Be clear as to exactly what you want when you order the wheel - there are multiple options/variations and in my case Techart Germany had to make and send 3 steering wheels before they got it right (First one got a badge, second one they forgot I wanted the perforated leather in the mid section for better grip, etc.). It was a semi fiasco and my dealer ended up with 2 extra wheels LOL.

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...per-now-4.html

 

I am just now catching up with this long thread, very interesting improvements for Turbo. Question: I already have a 4-point GMG roll bar in rear seat area severely limiting access to rear portion of car. Can the Bilstein Damptronic conversion be done while considering inside access is reduced? I am unclear how much if any access is required inside.

 

Hi, should not present a problem at all as the install is all outside the car's cabin. Great install thread here: https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...b-g-rides.html

 

Does that include the rear top mounts as one photo shows access from top on a cabriolet, whereas mine is a coupe? Just wanting to make sure this is doable without removing GMG roll bar.

 

Oops never mind I see what you mean. I do not know the answer then, maybe best to check with GMG directly?

 

Any experience, stories, or hearsay with front wide track kits (i.e TPC's http://www.tpcracing.com/wide-track.html)?

It'd be going into a 997.2 Turbo S with stock springs and shocks. I'd do sway's and DSC at the same time, and may switch to 245/325 Cup 2's vs my 235/305 Cup 2's now.

 

Hi, very interesting but sorry no knowledge of this product. I do trust TPC, an excellent and reputable tuner, and what they have to say.

BTW & IMHO if you are that serious about improving the car's soft suspension (yes stock 997.2 Turbo feels pretty soft also, to me anyway) the next thing would be stiffer spring or coilover. Cup tire has very stiff side-wall and using a stiff tire with the very soft stock spring, while a good improvement, could be further improved, by matching it with appropriately stiffer spring. No hard and fast rule but you kinda want the the spring and the tire to be evenly matched in their behavior (not one super stiff, the other soft).

A while back Porsche was racing GT3 at the 'ring and IIRC Walter Rohrl mentioned a similar concept: road condition caused them to have to de-tune to softer tire, and as they did that they switched out to softer spring as well. If my memory serves me right.

Similarly, DSC is only software change of stock damper - there is only so much this could do, and changing the actual hardware (the damper itself + spring) would bring even more improvement. Besides "better" spring rates, just lowering the car's center of gravity is of huge benefit with car dynamics and this could only be done by actual spring or coilover change.

 

I agree with a lot of your points. Stiffer feels better but it just depends on the roads you drive on. For me, this is not a DD. However, it still is 80% aggressive street through mountain twisties and some highways (never city streets) and 20% at the race track. Of that 80% aggressive street, the roads have varying conditions. It's mostly bumpy though, and sometimes damp. I think I need a suspension that is soft so that the damper can absorb the bumps first before transferring load to the tires. Even on stock Sport Plus settings with PASM on, the 997.2 is pretty stiff for the roads I drive on. I can be going quite fast through a corner and hit a bump in the road, or hit an elevation change. I find PASM off is much better for this 80%.

For the 20% at the race track I find the 997.2 not stiff enough. Way too much body roll on big camber turns or hairpins.

If I ever did a coilover I'd do the Tractive DDA. It looks extremely good. The springs you use are actually softer than stock because the shocks have a much wider dynamic range (as per what TPC says... I've never tried). Settings can also be electronically controlled. I can't stand adjusting compression/rebound at the track. It absolutely sucks doing that. I think you need a pit crew for that. Me personally, I want it very simple... like pushing a button for setting 1, 2, 3. 1 is soft, 2 medium, 3 stiff where the low/high speed compression and rebound are preset into 3 settings that I can use for any condition. None of this 18 clicks stuff.

Guess I'll find out about this front wide track kit soon since I ordered it! Hope it works with 245's front.

 

1. Pls correct me if I am wrong but the Tractive DDA is primarily for conversion of *NON* PASM 997, no? You might want to check if this system is meant for 997 Turbo, which already has PASM. If you are that serious about tracks, at 10k there are also alternatives such as JRZ and Ohlins, etc.

2. Wow didn't expect you to pull the trigger that quick. This is not a common mod and I probably would vote to do this at later stage once you have taken care of the basic first (spring and/or coilover). But now that you've done it, have fun! I would be interested in hearing your report and pictures.

I know we all want the "Holy Grail" of suspension, great handling AND great ride, but unfortunately no such thing exists (if there were Porsche wouldn't have a separate class of cars, the GT3 and GT2, for more race oriented application) and at some point you'll have to make a choice. As mentioned and IMHO, I would vote, at this stage, to go with the basic tried-and-true and nothing exotic. This means sway bar + lowering spring/coilover. The spring and damper are the heart and soul of the suspension system and a change here is the first thing that any good tuner would recommend. Hope this helps and have fun.

 

Just a few things to chime in on here...

1. Tractive DDA is available for ALL models (with or without PASM) of 996, 997, 987, and the 981/991 packages should be available sometime in May. Tractive DDA is our top-of-the-line, cream-of-the-crop active damper. Its mechanical build is on par with that of Ohlins, Penske, Moton, etc. and it responds to DSC commands in 6 milliseconds as opposed to the Damptronic range which is in the 80-100 millisecond range.

2. We like to think DSC/DDA IS the "Holy Grail" of suspension I'm confident our customers will agree. Our track/race results certainly attest to one side of the coin here. A quick ride in a car fitted with the system should attest to the other.

 

Hi Harris, thanks for the correction and congrats on the continued excellent work. TPC deserves huge credit for this pioneering work - VERY, VERY impressive. It really blows my mind that you've cracked the PASM "codes."

Questions please:
1. The DSC/DDA could be used with different spring rates, or is it fixed?
2. If yes to above, what range of spring rates could be used with the DSC/DDA for the 997 Turbo? I know exact rate might be proprietary, but could you give approximate number range, front and rear? (For example JRZ would suggest 500/700 front/rear as starting point for 997 Turbo.)

It is obviously not possible for every customer to test drive the car and I believe knowing the spring rates that the dampers are optimized for would help in making the decision. I know if I were to buy that would be my first question. (In fact I would actually ask for exact spring rates that the system ships with .). Thanks again.

 

I think what Tractive has done with active suspension (technically it's semi active) + TPC's ability to implement it is a huge forward step which I think is more revolutionary than evolutionary. I don't know about you guys but, I absolutely hate messing around with clicks on compression/rebound when I'm at the track. I think that stuff is made for teams with pit crews. A driver explains to their pit crew what he feels, and the pit crew adjusts. When I go to a track day by myself I only want to mess with tire pressures. THAT'S IT.

I have been talking to TPC directly and I hope they don't mind me sharing this info:

(From Tom @ TPC)

With a fully dynamic suspension tuning strategy their configuration(RWD or AWD) of a particular chassis(in this case the 997 chassis) is not relevant since we are dynamically tuning to counter weight transfer for individual corner of the car based on the amount and direction of the g-force the car is subjected to. This is completely unlike "static" suspension tuning because the damping force is not changed dynamically, so therefore spring rates and the adjustment ***** of the shocks are critical for different config within a chassis model. It is not the case with dynamic suspension system so we must think differently.

With that said we narrowed down to three options for spring rates for "base" stiffness for each customer's desire. The stiffer the springs the narrower the dynamic range becomes at the low end but will favor very high speed tracks.
1) Road & Track version with 60/110nm springs
2) Intermediate version with 80/130nm springs
3) Extreme track version with 100/150nm springs

All three options are have good road manners and are excellent for track(I have driven all three) but if the public roads/track are very bumpy then option #1 is the best choice.

Tractive DDA coilover kit includes front & rear monoball top plates and springs. DSC is sold separate;y. The DSC for Tractive DDA requires different program than for OEM PASM/Bilstein shocks because the total range for Tractive DDA is wider and more responsive for a given command.

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That being said, I know I would pick the 60/110nm springs if I were to go ahead. One, my public mountain roads I drive on is bumpy and damp a lot, and second the track I drive on is considered a medium/slower type of track.

 

Thank you (& Tom/TPC) for the interesting and fun info. Different spring rates for different applications: this is as expected and no worse or different than other coilovers.

I agree with your choice of #1; number 3 might just shake loose all your tooth fillings . Hope you will get the TPC system and report result; I am always curious. Anyway, I have to hit the sack now but I'll post comparison of spring rates above with other systems when I have time. It's fun, and revealing. Thanks again.