New Pic (Face lifted 911 Turbo)
#16
07-04-2008, 10:03 AM
I don't think we will see the FL changes until early 2009 as a MY2010. Dealers have MY2009 allocations with build dates through December, 2008. The MY2009 engine is relatively reported to to be unchanged.
#19
07-04-2008, 03:24 PM
This should help...
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...d.php?t=400695
BTW, I agree with Chris. The wet-sump or integrated dry sump or whatever-you-want -to-call-it M97/9A1 may be able to take modifications for a turbocharger...they may ultimately produce more HP stock for stock compared to the current engine, but I'm willing to bet that we'll see more of them at the shop, and very few making the kind of HP we're seeing on the GT1 block.
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...d.php?t=400695
BTW, I agree with Chris. The wet-sump or integrated dry sump or whatever-you-want -to-call-it M97/9A1 may be able to take modifications for a turbocharger...they may ultimately produce more HP stock for stock compared to the current engine, but I'm willing to bet that we'll see more of them at the shop, and very few making the kind of HP we're seeing on the GT1 block.
#21
07-04-2008, 04:55 PM
I don`t think they will use exactly the same m97 block with it´s RMS problems for the TT-MK2 basis.
they have created a whole new engine for the standard 997, also because of the RMS problems, so why taking a step back again, it doesn´t make much sense at all. no, i don´t believe it till all the details are revealed and i think they manage to build a proper, modified TT engine.
they have created a whole new engine for the standard 997, also because of the RMS problems, so why taking a step back again, it doesn´t make much sense at all. no, i don´t believe it till all the details are revealed and i think they manage to build a proper, modified TT engine.
#22
07-04-2008, 06:28 PM
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They put the 9A1 version of the m97 in bc it's 25k cheaper per car, bottom line. The only cars that will have the gt1 will be the gt3rs and possibly the gt2.
This engine is an improvement over the m97 but not even in the same solar system as a gt1.
Glad I got my gt1!
That sound you just heard was the 997tt pre fl increasing value.
This engine is an improvement over the m97 but not even in the same solar system as a gt1.
Glad I got my gt1!
That sound you just heard was the 997tt pre fl increasing value.
#24
07-04-2008, 09:36 PM
They put the 9A1 version of the m97 in bc it's 25k cheaper per car, bottom line. The only cars that will have the gt1 will be the gt3rs and possibly the gt2.
This engine is an improvement over the m97 but not even in the same solar system as a gt1.
Glad I got my gt1!
That sound you just heard was the 997tt pre fl increasing value.
This engine is an improvement over the m97 but not even in the same solar system as a gt1.
Glad I got my gt1!
That sound you just heard was the 997tt pre fl increasing value.
About 5% of the potential buyers will know the difference.
Less than 5% of the engines will grenade with just street use.
More than 5% of the MSRP will go to Porsche's bottom line.
#25
07-05-2008, 12:40 AM
I don`t think they will use exactly the same m97 block with it´s RMS problems for the TT-MK2 basis.
they have created a whole new engine for the standard 997, also because of the RMS problems, so why taking a step back again, it doesn´t make much sense at all. no, i don´t believe it till all the details are revealed and i think they manage to build a proper, modified TT engine.
they have created a whole new engine for the standard 997, also because of the RMS problems, so why taking a step back again, it doesn´t make much sense at all. no, i don´t believe it till all the details are revealed and i think they manage to build a proper, modified TT engine.
#26
07-05-2008, 03:17 AM
They have 'fixed' the RMS seal what, 5 times now? Always a new seal 'design' that frankly has been an insult to Porsche owners time over. I saw on video the Porsche guys say the latest engine fixes the issue once and for all however thats not the first time I've heard that.
The MK-II engine is a totally different animal (-40% parts, DI etc.) and the RMS problems seem to be fixed there and i truly hope that the 997TT-MK II will get a proper engine too.
#28
07-05-2008, 08:11 AM
I am far from expert, but these comments sound a little like when Porsche went to water cooled instead of air cooled. Porsche has made its reputation on continued, thoughtful evolution. Yes they have made mistakes, but undeniably the latest version of the 911 is the most "capable", ie fastest, safest, and must conform to modern requirements. Before I announce the TT DOA, I will wait and see what they actually release.
#29
07-05-2008, 09:45 AM
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Location: Rochester, New York, USA
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Guys,
This is a very significant (potentially very negative) development for the 911 Turbo, more than the change from air-cooled to water-cooled, a development that could mean the end of cheap tuning for 911 Turbo's on which many of the tuners who sponsor this forum depend for their livelihood.
Why? When the GT1 block was developed by Horst Marchart in the 1990's at the end of the 993 series, and this block became the basis for the 996 series GT3/GT2/TT/TTS, it ensured Porsche was still building bulletproof engines with tremendous safety margins. Sure there were the occasional RMS issues even with this block and even the occasional lemon, but as we all know from tuning these cars, those engines were built to handle high HP and torque and extremely stressful driving with high G forces, high temps and for thousands of miles/km's.
The FL engine change with DI is literally Porsche's "excuse" to build a more cost-effective (i.e., cheap) engine with fewer oil pumps since its not a true dry sump. It will now take several years to prove how much tuning capacity this engine has (or has not), but just the new PDK tranny alone is reported to handle no more than about 700Nm torque (about 515 lb-ft), and rumour has it that the 997TTS when it comes out will be available only in PDK.
This really appears to be the end of the 911 Turbo as the everyday supercar, since most of us here agree that in stock form the 911 Turbo as the 997TT is a fast GT car but not to supercar standards....
This is a very significant (potentially very negative) development for the 911 Turbo, more than the change from air-cooled to water-cooled, a development that could mean the end of cheap tuning for 911 Turbo's on which many of the tuners who sponsor this forum depend for their livelihood.
Why? When the GT1 block was developed by Horst Marchart in the 1990's at the end of the 993 series, and this block became the basis for the 996 series GT3/GT2/TT/TTS, it ensured Porsche was still building bulletproof engines with tremendous safety margins. Sure there were the occasional RMS issues even with this block and even the occasional lemon, but as we all know from tuning these cars, those engines were built to handle high HP and torque and extremely stressful driving with high G forces, high temps and for thousands of miles/km's.
The FL engine change with DI is literally Porsche's "excuse" to build a more cost-effective (i.e., cheap) engine with fewer oil pumps since its not a true dry sump. It will now take several years to prove how much tuning capacity this engine has (or has not), but just the new PDK tranny alone is reported to handle no more than about 700Nm torque (about 515 lb-ft), and rumour has it that the 997TTS when it comes out will be available only in PDK.
This really appears to be the end of the 911 Turbo as the everyday supercar, since most of us here agree that in stock form the 911 Turbo as the 997TT is a fast GT car but not to supercar standards....
Last edited by Al Pettee; 07-05-2008 at 10:18 AM.