Question for tuners..I would like to know what is the egt on the vtg cars with over..
#46
07-30-2008, 07:23 AM
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Warsaw
Posts: 1,041
Rep Power: 91 
RS/TT,
if you do not believe the myriad of data we have posted on 6spd including GPS accel charts, graphs, and videos, dyno plots, boost plots, AFR plots, EGT graphs, then why waste your time here asking circular questions? Somehow you wish to disbelieve empiric evidence but at the same time want help from those you think are lying. It makes no sense to me, and I have pointed out several obvious areas where your project will have issues. Good luck, I think you will need it.
if you do not believe the myriad of data we have posted on 6spd including GPS accel charts, graphs, and videos, dyno plots, boost plots, AFR plots, EGT graphs, then why waste your time here asking circular questions? Somehow you wish to disbelieve empiric evidence but at the same time want help from those you think are lying. It makes no sense to me, and I have pointed out several obvious areas where your project will have issues. Good luck, I think you will need it.
I'm telling you fifth time
interccolers are working better than air to air!!!! We never saw higher inteke temp than 55C at dyno and 34c out side temp!!! why no one in europe heard about 610hp with standard turbines like one of the US tuners offer??? absolutely max is 550ps for the europe.
Why sportec, ruf, 9ff use kkk, garrett turbines over 600ps????
Why no one saw any dyno sheet with more than 600ps with vtg in europe? ????
You are not responding to any of this questions? why?
we are not talking now about my car.
You noticed that all 9ff fast nardo cars are water cooled ic?
#47
07-30-2008, 07:28 AM
I found this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhYWLcMFSaA
On 1 bar ... No Sportchrono
How do u like U.S tuners work Mr-RS/TT!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhYWLcMFSaA
On 1 bar ... No Sportchrono
How do u like U.S tuners work Mr-RS/TT!!!
#48
07-30-2008, 07:33 AM
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Warsaw
Posts: 1,041
Rep Power: 91 I see sorry!My friend SP620 also had bypass test pipe, but strangely with cat car performed better.
Do you want to see what is free flow valvetronic bypass type exhaust that my friend was using to replace Sportec's restrictive exhaust?
Attachment 75908Attachment 75909Attachment 75910Attachment 75911
Do you want to see what is free flow valvetronic bypass type exhaust that my friend was using to replace Sportec's restrictive exhaust?
Attachment 75908Attachment 75909Attachment 75910Attachment 75911
this is my actual pipe 83mm no kat.
#49
07-30-2008, 07:36 AM
Incase u want some european highway pulls from the poor vtg's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU7Eb5S75qo
Still on 1 bar and pump gas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU7Eb5S75qo
Still on 1 bar and pump gas
#51
07-30-2008, 07:39 AM
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Warsaw
Posts: 1,041
Rep Power: 91 I found this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhYWLcMFSaA
On 1 bar ... No Sportchrono
How do u like U.S tuners work Mr-RS/TT!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhYWLcMFSaA
On 1 bar ... No Sportchrono
How do u like U.S tuners work Mr-RS/TT!!!
try to compere it with my ex car.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=hwCrS7FNXLA
0-300=18,2 measured by actual owner at sonic Korea.
I'm just asking for the power of 700hp kit and vtg that is all.
#52
07-30-2008, 07:46 AM
Hey 997GT3 RS/TT! I think I agree with what others has said in this forum without any bias. I am from Taiwan where European tuners are most popular and considered as prestigious choice over US tuners whose work is considered locally as American junk!
However, Seeing is believeing. I personally has not seen a 9ff 997tt in Taiwan, therefore I can't comment on that. However, I have seen an European premium tuner's car which cost more than US$26K and its performance is just ordinary comparing with another tip 996TT which only cost US$ 9000+ has the performance at 6.8 sec for 100~200km and 18.8 sec for 200~300km. Therefore, people who worship European tuners over here have also paid great respect to the US tuners since the cost and performance gain is so symmetrical and good value for $$$ .
Last edited by S4corrado996TT; 07-30-2008 at 07:58 AM.
#53
07-30-2008, 07:46 AM
try to compere it with my ex car.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=hwCrS7FNXLA
0-300=18,2 measured by actual owner at sonic Korea.
I'm just asking for the power of 700hp kit and vtg that is all.
What a pethatic compare from u
That monster ran mid 5's on 1.5-1.7bar from 100-200....Scott Proto car ran mid 5 60-130mph with 1 bar on 93 octane!!!
#54
07-30-2008, 08:02 AM
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Warsaw
Posts: 1,041
Rep Power: 91 your links are nothing special, I thought that it's standard car.
I'm just asking where from 610hp with standard vtg and where from 700hp with modified vtg, with standard size pipes before turbines, with standard cams, heads etc????
I know that there will be no answer here
#55
07-30-2008, 10:36 AM
Karol,
What more are you looking for? You PM'ed me about the EGT numbers we see with our kit. On 7/17 I replied back. Did you not get it?
Karol,
~875 deg C max on 93 oct on the dyno, 91 oct would be a little higher. During street driving it be a little bit lower due to increased cooling.
-Mike
What more are you looking for? You PM'ed me about the EGT numbers we see with our kit. On 7/17 I replied back. Did you not get it?
Karol,
~875 deg C max on 93 oct on the dyno, 91 oct would be a little higher. During street driving it be a little bit lower due to increased cooling.
-Mike
#56
07-30-2008, 11:02 AM
To cool your system you might want to try spraying methanol and water mixture and inject it directly into your intake. That or try to find higher octane fuel to cool the flame front of your combustion chamber.
Changing your heads and cams do not alter the backpressure of your car - it will only increase flow into your logjam. You need to start thinking before making arbitrary mods.
You have failed in your project goals and until you identify the false assumptions in your plan you will continue to fail.
#57
07-31-2008, 04:47 AM
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Warsaw
Posts: 1,041
Rep Power: 91 I'm telling you for the 6th time 55C means your timing and boost is already being pulled. Your intercoolers are not sufficient for your application. You can measure your coolant temps all you want - that does not mean your intake charge is being efficiently cooled at all.
To cool your system you might want to try spraying methanol and water mixture and inject it directly into your intake. That or try to find higher octane fuel to cool the flame front of your combustion chamber.
Changing your heads and cams do not alter the backpressure of your car - it will only increase flow into your logjam. You need to start thinking before making arbitrary mods.
You have failed in your project goals and until you identify the false assumptions in your plan you will continue to fail.
To cool your system you might want to try spraying methanol and water mixture and inject it directly into your intake. That or try to find higher octane fuel to cool the flame front of your combustion chamber.
Changing your heads and cams do not alter the backpressure of your car - it will only increase flow into your logjam. You need to start thinking before making arbitrary mods.
You have failed in your project goals and until you identify the false assumptions in your plan you will continue to fail.
so where should I measure the intake temp you think????
Do you understand that 55c is temp of intake, read by sensor before throttle at 1,5 Bar boost at dyno with over 30C outside temp?!!!
I also measured the water temp to know what is the difference between the water and real intake temp.
If you still think that my intercoolers are not working........you are wrong.
I finished all talk about my car now, let's go back to the questions I post, any chance to receive some answers regarding very powerful kits from U.S based on vtg?
#58
07-31-2008, 06:28 AM
Karol,
you want to know why your EGT is high. To do so let's look at some basic info to find your problem:
1)what is your AFR?
If your AFR at WOT is running higher than 12.5, your EGT's climb too high. Factory turbo cars tend to run rich - AFR 10-11's to keep EGT low
2)how much boost are you running - is it really 1.5 bar?
The factory car runs 1.2 bar max, the AWE 700 kit runs 1.2 bar max. At 1.5 bar you are likely spinning the compressor wheel outside it's optimal efficiency and introducing a great amount of heat into the intake air (and by result into the EGT)
3)what octane fuel are you running?
Octane is critical as you squeeze up the boost on these cars. Higher octane allows the motor to run cooler and lessens the risk of pre-detonation/knock (which will cause spikes in your EGT). At 1.5 bar you need far more than street octane fuel
4)what is your knock count?
when the ECU senses knock it will drop your boost and retard timing, regardless of your IAT
5)what is your max IAT?
if 55C then it is a problem. Motronics has always cut boost, timing when hitting 55C. That is a fact. The GT2 may have higher IAT at the Y-pipe but it also uses the expansion intake downstream of the Y pipe to further cool the intake charge - it acts as a "secondary intercooler" to drop temps another ~20C.
6)Lastly what is your max EGT?
If you are over 980C, the ecu knows to reduce timing, reduce boost to protect the VTG from thermal damage. the previous 5 conditions all will contribute to higher EGT.
If you really have a "Porsche Motorsports programming engineer" at your disposal, I find it strange that you would be searching for answers here.
you want to know why your EGT is high. To do so let's look at some basic info to find your problem:
1)what is your AFR?
If your AFR at WOT is running higher than 12.5, your EGT's climb too high. Factory turbo cars tend to run rich - AFR 10-11's to keep EGT low
2)how much boost are you running - is it really 1.5 bar?
The factory car runs 1.2 bar max, the AWE 700 kit runs 1.2 bar max. At 1.5 bar you are likely spinning the compressor wheel outside it's optimal efficiency and introducing a great amount of heat into the intake air (and by result into the EGT)
3)what octane fuel are you running?
Octane is critical as you squeeze up the boost on these cars. Higher octane allows the motor to run cooler and lessens the risk of pre-detonation/knock (which will cause spikes in your EGT). At 1.5 bar you need far more than street octane fuel
4)what is your knock count?
when the ECU senses knock it will drop your boost and retard timing, regardless of your IAT
5)what is your max IAT?
if 55C then it is a problem. Motronics has always cut boost, timing when hitting 55C. That is a fact. The GT2 may have higher IAT at the Y-pipe but it also uses the expansion intake downstream of the Y pipe to further cool the intake charge - it acts as a "secondary intercooler" to drop temps another ~20C.
6)Lastly what is your max EGT?
If you are over 980C, the ecu knows to reduce timing, reduce boost to protect the VTG from thermal damage. the previous 5 conditions all will contribute to higher EGT.
If you really have a "Porsche Motorsports programming engineer" at your disposal, I find it strange that you would be searching for answers here.
#59
07-31-2008, 08:15 AM
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Warsaw
Posts: 1,041
Rep Power: 91 Karol,
Thank you for trying to help my, but we should talk about U.S full of power kits based on vtg
you want to know why your EGT is high. To do so let's look at some basic info to find your problem:
1)what is your AFR?
If your AFR at WOT is running higher than 12.5, your EGT's climb too high. Factory turbo cars tend to run rich - AFR 10-11's to keep EGT low
about 11
2)how much boost are you running - is it really 1.5 bar?
The factory car runs 1.2 bar max, the AWE 700 kit runs 1.2 bar max. At 1.5 bar you are likely spinning the compressor wheel outside it's optimal efficiency and introducing a great amount of heat into the intake air (and by result into the EGT)
We saw 1,5 Bar boost at 3000rpm. you know that the boost gauge on speedometer will never show more than 1,2.
You noticed that we are running on 997 gt2 modified turbines.
You also know that Techart use same turbines and they run at 1,6 bar boost in 700ps kit.
3)what octane fuel are you running?
Octane is critical as you squeeze up the boost on these cars. Higher octane allows the motor to run cooler and lessens the risk of pre-detonation/knock (which will cause spikes in your EGT). At 1.5 bar you need far more than street octane fuel
European sheel 100 octan+, I run my ex car and there was no problem at 1,7 Bar boost.
4)what is your knock count?
when the ECU senses knock it will drop your boost and retard timing, regardless of your IAT
Of course, first is geting rich, ignition is retard and boost is reduced.
It starts to knock very early, all the sensors are fine.
5)what is your max IAT?
if 55C then it is a problem. Motronics has always cut boost, timing when hitting 55C. That is a fact. The GT2 may have higher IAT at the Y-pipe but it also uses the expansion intake downstream of the Y pipe to further cool the intake charge - it acts as a "secondary intercooler" to drop temps another ~20C.
I have gt2 intake system.
6)Lastly what is your max EGT?
If you are over 980C, the ecu knows to reduce timing, reduce boost to protect the VTG from thermal damage. the previous 5 conditions all will contribute to higher EGT.
Of course, once we saw 1001C for 1 sec maybe.
If you really have a "Porsche Motorsports programming engineer" at your disposal, I find it strange that you would be searching for answers here.
Thank you for trying to help my, but we should talk about U.S full of power kits based on vtg
you want to know why your EGT is high. To do so let's look at some basic info to find your problem:
1)what is your AFR?
If your AFR at WOT is running higher than 12.5, your EGT's climb too high. Factory turbo cars tend to run rich - AFR 10-11's to keep EGT low
about 11
2)how much boost are you running - is it really 1.5 bar?
The factory car runs 1.2 bar max, the AWE 700 kit runs 1.2 bar max. At 1.5 bar you are likely spinning the compressor wheel outside it's optimal efficiency and introducing a great amount of heat into the intake air (and by result into the EGT)
We saw 1,5 Bar boost at 3000rpm. you know that the boost gauge on speedometer will never show more than 1,2.
You noticed that we are running on 997 gt2 modified turbines.
You also know that Techart use same turbines and they run at 1,6 bar boost in 700ps kit.
3)what octane fuel are you running?
Octane is critical as you squeeze up the boost on these cars. Higher octane allows the motor to run cooler and lessens the risk of pre-detonation/knock (which will cause spikes in your EGT). At 1.5 bar you need far more than street octane fuel
European sheel 100 octan+, I run my ex car and there was no problem at 1,7 Bar boost.
4)what is your knock count?
when the ECU senses knock it will drop your boost and retard timing, regardless of your IAT
Of course, first is geting rich, ignition is retard and boost is reduced.
It starts to knock very early, all the sensors are fine.
5)what is your max IAT?
if 55C then it is a problem. Motronics has always cut boost, timing when hitting 55C. That is a fact. The GT2 may have higher IAT at the Y-pipe but it also uses the expansion intake downstream of the Y pipe to further cool the intake charge - it acts as a "secondary intercooler" to drop temps another ~20C.
I have gt2 intake system.
6)Lastly what is your max EGT?
If you are over 980C, the ecu knows to reduce timing, reduce boost to protect the VTG from thermal damage. the previous 5 conditions all will contribute to higher EGT.
Of course, once we saw 1001C for 1 sec maybe.
If you really have a "Porsche Motorsports programming engineer" at your disposal, I find it strange that you would be searching for answers here.
As I wrote before, I will not find answer here.
Yes I heard from totally different sources that the guy is the best porsche electronic , hi is also responsible for some famous german tuners electronic.
So I have no reason to worry.
What about your 700hp kits used in standard enigines and vtg turbines?????
Last edited by 997 GT3 RS/TT; 07-31-2008 at 08:20 AM.
#60
07-31-2008, 08:24 AM
You didn't wrote anything new, all your informations are obviously.
As I wrote before, I will not find answer here.
Yes I heard from totally different sources that the guy is the best porsche electronic , hi is also responsible for some famous german tuners.
So I have no reason to worry.
What about your 700hp kits used in standard enigines and vtg turbines?????
As I wrote before, I will not find answer here.
Yes I heard from totally different sources that the guy is the best porsche electronic , hi is also responsible for some famous german tuners.
So I have no reason to worry.
What about your 700hp kits used in standard enigines and vtg turbines?????
Not only have we published dyno sheets and technical data backing up our claims, an independent user has done the same, and has also competed in a standing mile acceleration test.
Have you seen this thread from another forum?
http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php...&page=0#433719
Looks like we put our money where our mouth is.
And you are correct, it looks like European tuners can't figure out how to get to the 700hp level with VTG turbos, but the Americans have.
What more proof do you want?
I understand how this may be a tough concept to come to terms with if you are a die hard European tuner fan, but you cannot dispute the facts here.