Thanks....so If I get coilover I dont need Springs ???

What about KW suspension...

IS there any suspesionn where I can raise and lower the car from inside ??? may be needed for undergraoudn packing or big speedbumps we have here...

 

GT RUS,

Your mission, if you choose to accept, is to read the first 5 pages of my thread in my signature. Just kidding.

Coilover consists of a dampener (shock absorber) and a spring. To improve handling you could change just the spring, or you could change both spring AND dampener. In other words, the 2 choices:

1. Changing the spring. This is the "lowering spring" that you read about. Advantage is lower cost.

2. Changing both spring and dampener. This is the "coilover" solution. It's more expensive, but there are 2 *theoretical* advantages (in other words, whether end result is better than just lowering spring, depends on the end users and the application -- there has not been a comparion test of lowering spring versus coilover for the Turbo).
One, the Bilstein coilover's monotube dampener is technically of higher quality than the stock dampener -- if you are to believe Bilstein ad material that is .
Two, the dampener is made specifically for the spring. Changing the whole coilover (dampener + spring) is preferabble, in theory, to just changing the spring: The 2 components, dampener and springs, are designed to match each other. If you are just changing the spring, basically you are using stiffer spring with the stock dampener, and that stock dampener is designed primarily for the stock spring with its softer rate. This might be a more theretical than practical concern, but it is a concern.

 

Champion did back to back testing with their car with springs and their own pss10 setup. They had faster lap times and experienced better handling with the springs alone.
For a pure street application I would just do springs and possibly sways, for a track coilover setup I'd go right to Motons.

 

I actually called Champion regarding the H&R spring prior to installing the Bilstein. I am not sure if a faster lap time was ever officially documented and subjected to public review.

I was told that the H&R spring setup has "better grip" than Bilstein. But again, this "comparison" was something mentioned unofficially to an interested buyer over the phone, and has never been documented officially on the web site. I felt this is not the best possible method to support one's finding.

The Champion Werks1 (?) Turbo did receive a spectacular review from Excellence Magazine and was my first choice, until I looked into Bilstein.

 

The factory strut is made by Bilstein, the factory springs on the GT2/3s( and I believe the TT) are made by H&R. I doubt there is any drop in quality with the OEM vs aftermarket, only adjustability.
I'll differ with my bro on pure street, I think totally stock with a good alignment is the way to go. If you're gonna track then that's a different story. FWIW I think the Champion springs are fantastic on the track, I may just add the Gt2 sways and call it a day.
GT RUS, if you just want to lower the car get some good (H&R or TA) springs, you don't need coil overs.

 

Doug, I agree, pure street= stock with a gt3 alignment is plenty. If you want a better track setup(more neg camber), you'll have to lower it a bit, +/- on sways.
c

 

GT RUS doesn't believe in the search button.

 

^^^
And to throw one more sway into the equation, RSS. Note that rear drop link is included in the package, all for 595. My GMG sway with rear Tarett drop link costs close to 900.

I vote for a sway shoot-out!

 

When you guys talk about "pure street" use, do you mean commuting to work and trips to the grocery store and the country club? I found that alignment by itself still left a lot to be desired when "spirited driving" was called for. Anyway I've done the coil overs/sways/drop links/alignment and find the handling is very satisfactory. I think if I were to track the car I'd be want more links, harder bushings, adjustment of the sways, and more aggressive alignment.

 

very few people can drive these cars at 10/10, none of us need any of this stuff. The car out of the box has has a very high performance envelope. Porsche knows what they are doing, so yes for pure street and no track I say the stock suspension with a -1 camber is more than enough.
The gt2 sways are way, way less than $900 fwiw

 

Yes out of the box the Porsche Turbo has an extremely high performance envelope, but it also squats, leans, dives, and staggers like a drunkard in combination curve. You do NOT need to take the car to the track to feel this. The happy tail of the Turbo is a well documented problem, not speculation. GMG has video on their web site and you could see the movements http://www.gmgracing.com/media.shtml .

It is rumored (not confirmed) that the H&R spring you are using is the softest of all after-market springs. What that tells me is it is one's personal preference and there is no right or wrong. Your preference seems to be on the soft side and that's cool.

That said (some like it soft and it's ok), to say the Turbo doesn't need stiffer spring to feel as agile as a *TYPICAL* sports car in its class is to argue against the experience of every single reputable tuner to the right side of this thread Doug.

 

I'll add two things.

1. While H&R is the OEM for Champion's springs, it doesn't mean that they share the same spring rate as H&R's aftermarket spring.

2. I am not saying that Fabryce is misleading us, but the only source that tells us that H&R's spring is softer than stock is GMG, who has motive in that he is selling his own Eibach OEM'ed springs.

 

Very good points . (I made a similar note in one of my posts; it is a "rumor.") The nature of the business -- and I understand -- is that everyone likes to keep the tech data proprietary so it's hard to know where the truth is. I made many calls regarding spring rates of all the after-market springs and never got any answer.

The exception is of course Bilstein; I got the PSS10's spring rates the first time I asked. This probably is a reflection of what a huge company it is compared to the afer-market tuners. Perhaps Bilstein's size and success allow them to not feel the need to keep such important data secret. To me, it is critical information and is the first thing I would like to know about any spring that I am going to put in my car.

 

Yes I do....but the world is moving and I would like to get upto date info...Plus I want to make sure that I understand everything right that is why may be I am asking same things ))) sorry but Eglish is no my native language

Anyways..very informative topic...I am learning....so those swaybars are all different GT2 vs RSS vs Champions vs H&R vs GMC, they look alike...which are are the best and which set is the best....street and track ???

 

Can,
I never said I like a softer spring, DO NOT put words in my mouth my friend. I have 10 years experience with these cars on the track, I don't drive it anywhere near the performance envelope and I doubt you do either. If your car is behaving like a staggering drunk at the track, it just might be operator error . Sure the car has a little extra weight transfer in non sport, but it is managed by adjusting your driving style. The Champions are a progressive spring, so they get stiffer as they are pushed harder. I actually find them stiffer in the sport mode. Don't believe what any of the tuners tell you most are just trying to sell you something Champion included.