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997 TT beats GT-R at Ring. Nissan accused of cheating.

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  #1531  
Old 11-13-2008, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Prche951
Funny thing is that the reason why Nissan has drawn the ire of porsche and porsche owners is because of it's advertising campaign. the truth is that if porsche would have let their car in the hands of customers do the talking and see where the chips fall, these long threads would not exist.
There hasn't been any advertising campaign at all.

If there had been, we probably wouldn't have idiots all over the internet claiming that you need to change transmission fluid every 1k miles, or that you can only pump the tyres up at a dealer.
 
  #1532  
Old 11-13-2008, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Prche951
yup and it shows with all of the 911 wins at Lemans.. explain to me what the fat sow GTR has won? oh yah, nothing in the real world. Races in japan and australia, lol, basically nothing. great record, I guess that is why they have to act like they can match the king....
Maybe its got to do with the fact that the car is still pretty new and has just being released? In all fairness, it has done pretty well in the races it has competed in, including winning a road rally ahead of a great driver and his 911 GT2 - who has dominated that rally for the part 10 years or so.

Besides, what does the road going 911 and the Lemans 911 have in common? If you say that then i guess the GTR which won the championship in the Japanese SuperGT series does count for something. Even though that car and the road GTR has nothing in common.
 
  #1533  
Old 11-13-2008, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Prche951
still nothing compared to the GTR's replacing a 20k tranny because of a failed clutch and also nothing compared to warranty being void if you use launch control.
You display ignorance of the way dual-clutch gearboxes work.

The warranty issues are to be resolved - the one thing I do know is that you aren't going to find out the facts on the internet.
 
  #1534  
Old 11-13-2008, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Trommel
There hasn't been any advertising campaign at all.

If there had been, we probably wouldn't have idiots all over the internet claiming that you need to change transmission fluid every 1k miles, or that you can only pump the tyres up at a dealer.
you are missing the form of advertising they used. They are much smarter than you. They used skewed performance data to market their car attempting to take away customers from the car that they used as a pattern all these years in designing the GTR. Very slick, enough so, that you missed it. Testing is a great form of advertisement.
 
  #1535  
Old 11-13-2008, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Prche951
and still no answer to the 4000lb physics defying question, huh

keep on diverting attention, but we'll make sure we get it back on topic.
New member from e90post Swamp2 did a simulation and regression analysis that it is possible with 550hp or more. Hence, a ringer and probably with a "tweaked" suspension as well.
 
  #1536  
Old 11-13-2008, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Prche951
Funny thing is that the reason why Nissan has drawn the ire of porsche and porsche owners is because of it's advertising campaign. the truth is that if porsche would have let their car in the hands of customers do the talking and see where the chips fall, these long threads would not exist.

Ever wonder why you don't see these threads about ZO6 or ZR1 or ACS versus porsche? because they let their cars do the talking. Even the new suppra is not a hot debate. Nissan wanted to get attention by using skewed testing and bought off people to do what would have taken the car more than a year to do.

Nissan is quite shameful IMO. To the point that I sold my 2004 nissan and will not ever own another. I'd rather own a yugo. Their lies do not surprise me in fact I expect them to lie they have practice at it.
It is of no secret that Nissan used the turbo as their bench mark, but they have never publicly denounced Porsche in any way. Any comparisons and humiliation of the turbo was done by the public and the media - not Nissan.
It is Porsche who are playing dirty with their tactics by accusing Nissan of cheating without hard evidence.
 
  #1537  
Old 11-13-2008, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Prche951
you are missing the form of advertising they used. They are much smarter than you. They used skewed performance data to market their car attempting to take away customers from the car that they used as a pattern all these years in designing the GTR. Very slick, enough so, that you missed it. Testing is a great form of advertisement.
Performance data which has been proven by independent tests?

Testing which has shown the car to be extremely impressive?

This is a car we're talking about. A car, made by a car manufacturer.

It's unlikely the Illuminati are involved.
 
  #1538  
Old 11-13-2008, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Trommel
My reply wasn't worded very well - I was referring to the synchro problems which affected early 996 Turbos.

Having first year problems on a car is normal:

-Not warrantying them
-Making people replace the whole and not parts
-Making people replace the clutch too
-Misleading people to think they could use certain features


Is not. Dont even think the two are comparable. Porsche has an impecable reputation for service and warranty. I know guys that have gotten their motor replaced because a code that's loosely related to the motor had the check engine light on and they couldnt figure it out in two trips to the dealer over a period of time.

Nissan's rep has been severly tarnished by the GT-R.
 
  #1539  
Old 11-13-2008, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by heavychevy
Nissan's rep has been severly tarnished by the GT-R.
Too early to tell, but it's clear it should have been handled better than it appears to have been in the US.

As for Porsche fixing everything that breaks - I don't think so. Ten minutes on any Porsche forum will show you that. 3.4l 996 engines anyone?
 
  #1540  
Old 11-13-2008, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Quacker
Maybe its got to do with the fact that the car is still pretty new and has just being released? In all fairness, it has done pretty well in the races it has competed in, including winning a road rally ahead of a great driver and his 911 GT2 - who has dominated that rally for the part 10 years or so.

Besides, what does the road going 911 and the Lemans 911 have in common? If you say that then i guess the GTR which won the championship in the Japanese SuperGT series does count for something. Even though that car and the road GTR has nothing in common.

Way to go Porsche enthusiast.

You're right, the Japan GT car has V8 and is RWD and tube frame chassis.


The Chassis on the Cup Car used in Rolex Series and Speed GT as well as the RSR used in FIA and ALMS have the exact same chassis as street car GT3's and RS's. The racing motor up until they switched to the 4.0 Direct injection motor mid season this year shared the same racing block all the way back to the 964 (I think but still way back). In ALMS the difference doesnt go much farther, but in speed GT you can find lots of the same parts. In fact the 996 cup shared 80% parts with a 996 GT3. That % went down with the introduction of the sequential in the 997 and the fact that Porsche doesn take 997 GT3 and convert them to cup cars like they did with the 996. But you'll find more in common with the street cars from Porsche than anyone else.

All of a sudden the rear engine design doesnt seem so inferior does it when the race cars that are beating down everyone else on the track are built from the same stuff we drive on the streets.

When street chassis' are required, the Porsches win. You can put an end to that fake Porsche enthusiast claim, no one is buying that.
 
  #1541  
Old 11-13-2008, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Trommel
Too early to tell, but it's clear it should have been handled better than it appears to have been in the US.

As for Porsche fixing everything that breaks - I don't think so. Ten minutes on any Porsche forum will show you that. 3.4l 996 engines anyone?
3.4l engines is a low blow there. Yes, those motors had some issues when they came out. It was porsches attempt at making a 100% water cooled flat 6 motor. But they never used it in the high horsepower cars and they still don't. I have not heard of any issues with that motor since 2001-2002 but I could be wrong.

porsches have issues like any other car. Hell the wing failure in the turbo is a pain in the *** that every turbo owner will eventually go through. You just spring for the GT2 decklid if it happens after warranty.
 
  #1542  
Old 11-13-2008, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by heavychevy
Way to go Porsche enthusiast.

You're right, the Japan GT car has V8 and is RWD and tube frame chassis.


The Chassis on the Cup Car used in Rolex Series and Speed GT as well as the RSR used in FIA and ALMS have the exact same chassis as street car GT3's and RS's. The racing motor up until they switched to the 4.0 Direct injection motor mid season this year shared the same racing block all the way back to the 964 (I think but still way back). In ALMS the difference doesnt go much farther, but in speed GT you can find lots of the same parts. In fact the 996 cup shared 80% parts with a 996 GT3. That % went down with the introduction of the sequential in the 997 and the fact that Porsche doesn take 997 GT3 and convert them to cup cars like they did with the 996. But you'll find more in common with the street cars from Porsche than anyone else.

All of a sudden the rear engine design doesnt seem so inferior does it when the race cars that are beating down everyone else on the track are built from the same stuff we drive on the streets.

When street chassis' are required, the Porsches win. You can put an end to that fake Porsche enthusiast claim, no one is buying that.
With the exception of GT1, where the C6 and C5 Vettes have dominated in the past. In 2008 so far, the Vette has at least 3 first place so far and the best that the 997/911 GT3 RS has done is 9th place and 3 10th place showing. Even Aston Martin had 2 first place, another front engine race car.

EDIT: Correction, the 911 is in GT2 category, so it's not a fair comparison, my bad. The F430 Ferrari and Porsche 997 is neck to neck with a slight advantage to Ferrari in the GT2 category.
 

Last edited by jaeS4; 11-13-2008 at 12:52 PM.
  #1543  
Old 11-13-2008, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by jaeS4
With the exception of GT1, where the C6 and C5 Vettes have dominated in the past.
those vettes make enormous NA power...so the vipers.
 
  #1544  
Old 11-13-2008, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Prche951
those vettes make enormous NA power...so the vipers.
Yes they do, but they're in GT1 where as the Porsche is in GT2 so it wasn't a fair comparison in my part.
 
  #1545  
Old 11-13-2008, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by jaeS4
Yes they do, but they're in GT1 where as the Porsche is in GT2 so it wasn't a fair comparison in my part.
the lmp1 and 2 classes are also in a league all their own.


there are vettes, vipers, and ford gt's running in gt2 along with the na 911's. They obviously have some form of restriction that reduces their equivalent CI down, not sure what that is.
 


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